Goerz Red Dot?

[Matt_1193]

Can anyone tell me about Goerz Optical Co.'s 210mm Red Dot Artar?

[Wayne_6692]

I have one - nice lens. It's a 4 element Apochromatic process lens (more-or-less). Optimized for 1:1 but good at infinity at smaller stops. Schneider took over production in the 60's or 70's. Mine was produced in the mid 50's, is coated, and is in a #2 Compur shutter. The modern equivelent to this lens would be the Rodenstock Apo-Ronar. It has a small circle of coverage - the 8-1/4 is o.k. for 4x5 at infinity, using it on 5x7 would be pushing it a little.

[Matt_1193]

This one is in an Ilex #3 Universal. Could the same lens have been made with different dia.?

[Wayne_6692]

No I don't think so, although I have read that they were available in aluminum as well as brass cells (mine is brass). I don't think #2 shutters have been manufactured for 30 years or so. So your lens may have been a barrel lens set into the shutter later in life (or maybe mine was), I haven't come across enough information yet to be able to say for sure. Your lens may also have been manufactured towards the end when the #2's were no longer available. Since my shutter is a Compur I'm guessing that it was originally sold set into the shutter, since this was the "standard" factory shutter back then. I have come across references to 8-1/4" Artar's in #1 and #2 shutters (and now #3's), and 14" ones in #2's and #3's - so I definitely believe yours was mounted after the fact - it appears that these lenses are likely to be mounted in any available shutter. Check the following websites for some info.

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~qtluong/photography/lf/classic- experts.html

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/testing.html

[neil poulsen]

At their optimum distance, these lenses are reputed to be incredibly sharp. I had the legendary 12" for awhile. It had plenty of coverage for 4x5, but it didn't seem to be all that sharp at infinity. Wisner, and perhaps others (e.g. Grimes?), have the knowhow to adjust the spacing so as to optimize these lenses for infinity use. While I didn't check for it myself, I read that stopping these lenses down gives them that much more image circle, like one would expect from a Dagor. As a dialyte, I believe these lenses correspond most to Rodenstock's Apo-Ronar lenses.

[neil poulsen]

I have some old documentation which states that the 210mm Red Dod Artars have an image circle of 163mm at f16.

[neil poulsen]

Third try . . . I read that stopping these lenses down does not give them that much more image circle.

[Jon Wilson]

For those who are interested for comparison sake, attached is a portrait taken in natural lighting using my 8 1/4" (210mm) Goerz APO Red Dot Artar f9 taken at f16 with velvia rated at ISO 50. Lens is in a compur shutter and cleaned in 2002 by Steve Grimes. It also happens to be a government surplus lens from NASA. See: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?topic_id=1481&msg_id=00C7ar&photo_id=3341325&photo_sel_index=0

[John Kasaian]

I've got a modest passel of Artars, both APO and Red Dots, though no 210mms. In general, these lenses have small image circles in "normal" focal lengths for a given format. I'm not surprise that a 210 reportedly won't yield acres of image circle on a 4x5. If coverage is what you're after, a dagor will out perform an artar at normal focal lengths. OTOH, Artars are certainly usable as normal lenses and do have(in my experience) some wiggle room--but not a lot. Stopping down, unlike with the G-Claron, won't help much. A 210mm Artar on a 4x5 should give you more wiggle room than a "more normal" (for 4x5) 150mm Artar so don't dispair. I've used a 14" APO Artar on 8x10 with fine results(meaning I can't find fault with the lens---my abilities are another issue!) IMHO where these lenses shine is when used as "long" lenses. As for the qualities these lenses exhibit, all I can say is : outstanding! In Steve Simmon's book Using The View Camera there is a picture taken by Morely Baer of the California foothills. Awesum detail! These are my observations, YMMV.