Cost per print with 3800 versus...

[Frank Petronio]

Do you have any idea what the average ink use or price might be per 8x10 print from your 3800?

Or in figuring it out, if the 2200 uses 1ml per print and the 7800 uses 0.5 ml per print, where does the 3800 rank?

I'm just trying to figure the break even point, as I have a large batch of printing to do and my 2200 paid for itself several years ago... trying to crinch how many prints it would be before a $1300 printer beats a $0 printer

[jackies]

Frank,

I understand that with the 3800 you get ink that is valued at $500, which makes the printer hardware cheaper. Almost hard to pass up. I am in the same boat as you!

Jackie

[Greg Lockrey]

I have the 3800 for about a month, so my "real" calculations aren't going to be that accurate yet since it uses some to load the tubes. It does appear that the volume usage per square foot is about the same as my 9600's on average. The cost for an 80 ml cartridge is $60.00 and for a 220ml cartridge is $80.00 from my supplier. Based on this alone, I calculate that ink cost to be twice as much per square foot or about a $1.08 per sqft. My 9600's run at about $.54 per sqft. For an 8x10 on the 3800 I calculate that to be $.60. I typically use about $300.00 per day in ink and paper on the 9600's so I can pretty well get an close idea of actual costs on the average. Hope this helps. BTW the prints are gorgeous with the canned profiles. And they do look sharper. Enhanced matte paper can be printed to 2880 dpi. (I don't see that much difference at 1440 though.)

[Ron Marshall]

BTW the prints are gorgeous with the canned profiles. And they do look sharper. Enhanced matte paper can be printed to 2880 dpi. (I don't see that much difference at 1440 though.)

How does the B/W output look?

[Greg Lockrey]

How does the B/W output look?

I like it. I won't say it's a good as QTR yet, but very close. I haven't that much time on it due to my customer demands. But then I'm pretty easy to please. They have what they call "Advanced B&W Mode" and you can tweek the B&W from cold-neutral-warm, very similar to QTR in looks. Appears to have the metamerism licked but I haven't tried my samples in all lighting types either. I would like to see a 44" or larger machine come out with the 3800 head and ink features.

[Jack Flesher]

My .02

First off, I have not printed enough to make any solid claims yet either, so these are just my impressions until I can glean some better hard data. I have printed roughly 25 16x20 prints on 17x22 Epson Premium Luster along with several dozen 8x10s, along with perhaps a dozen on fine art paper. All of my inks are still 3/4 full except for the Pk and Mk, probably due to all the switching back and forth I've done between those.

Given that there are 9 cartridges at $60 each, we have $540 total of ink. Assume I've used a total of 28% of that, which included the initial charging and includes a far higher number of matte to photo black swaps, I have burned roughly $150 worth of ink. Assume I have printed the equivalent of about 30 16x20 and 12 8x10 prints (not an exact count but probably pretty close), that equals 10,560 square inches of prints or 73 square feet. $150 / 73 square feet = roughly $2.05/sq ft -- BUT THIS INCLUDES INK SWAPS, MINOR CLEANS AND THE INITIAL CHARGE.

I have calculated similar numbers for my 7800 at $1.45/sq ft including the regular head cleanings. So the larger printers are going to remain a bit more economical to operate over the long haul, but of course the 78/9800 won't batch print any SHEET stock.

Finally, the dithering pattern is improved and you can see the difference under a loupe, though it is subtle to the naked eye and I can't say I actually "see" it with my unaided eyes. But, I am left with the distinct "impression" a print off the 3800 appears slightly sharper/clearer than the same print off my 7800 -- FWIW...

Regarding B&W: Personally, I found the B&W output so excellent with my 7800, as soon as the 3800 was delivered, I sold my 7600 that was dedicated to Mk ink and QTR. The 3800 and its easy swap to Mk makes it my printer for art papers (I never really printed larger than 16x21 on art paper anyway). Moreover, I DO *NOT* USE THE EPSON ADVANCED B&W DRIVER, but rather use my normal color profiles and get WYSIWYG B&W output (dead neutral or accurately toned). The benefit is I don't have to play the guessing game with respects to Epson's settings of lighter, darker and tone, or guess at what the overall contrast will be on the final print. I do however build my own custom paper profiles, so I cannot guarantee others will have as good of result as I do if they use the canned profiles, but it is certainly worth checking before looking into any dedicated RIP.

Hope this helps others!

[jackies]

Michael Reichmann has a review of the 3800 on his website at:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...son-3800.shtml

Jackie

[Frank Petronio]

Jack - what type of file are you printing for B&W? Just a desaturated RGB or straight greyscale? And otherwise just printing like you would a color print?

[Jack Flesher]

Jack - what type of file are you printing for B&W? Just a desaturated RGB or straight greyscale? And otherwise just printing like you would a color print?

I convert my color images -- scanned film or digital original -- to B&W in PhotoShop. There are several good methods of doing this, though I personally prefer and use the Image Factory plug in, "Convert to B&W Pro". I make a copy layer over my color file, and then run the plug-in. The converted image is now simply a gray layer over the native color file and the total file remains as a regular RGB image in my regular RGB working space. (I can now also lower opacity of the grayscale image to impart a hand-colored look or mask back in certain colored elements if I want, but that is a different topic.) Next step may be some localized dodge and burn, then print. While the plug-in itself above does allow for toning, I usually prefer to do that in Photoshop and sometimes will also split-tone before I print.

And yes, I print the now grayscale or toned grayscale image (it has to be an RGB image to tone it inside PhotoShop) as one would normally print a color image, using the appropriate color profile for the paper being used.

Hope this makes sense...

[Frank Petronio]

But you send RGB and Greyscale files -- with the Color Ink/Paper profile -- the same way, interchangably? Cool