Developing an Eye for Both Color and B&W?

[Michael Heald]

Hello! I've been shooting pretty much exclusively B&W. I just received back my first batch of 4x5 100G. Of the 15, I like one tranny. Three seem passable, but boring. The others were anemic. I think what I found was that the colors I pre-visualized were so much more intense and vibrant that what the colors actually were, and, therefore, what was recorded on the film.
For those of you who shoot both color and B&W, are the two styles substantially different so that your previsualization processes for each is unique? Best regards.

Mike

[Ed Richards]

Are you going to scan these and work digitally? If so, then they are probably perfect.

[paulr]

Personally, I don't believe at all in the idea of previsualization (defined as Adams and Weston did in the early days, and later admitted to never actually doing). But I believe in seeing, and for me it took me years to feel comfortable with color.

Not years of shooting it, but years of looking around and being aware of it. About 8 years ago, I started to notice color relationships when I walked around. This annoyed me, because I was so completely oriented towards black and white. I didn't have any idea what i'd do with color ... film, processing, printinting--never mind putting together photographs that worked. Every time I'd look at work by real masters of color like Eggleston and Shore i'd just get intimidated. But I kept looking, and eventually felt comfortable enough to try it. Technologies came around that made the printing seem reasonable, and a friend gave me a longterm loan of a medium format camera ... and my ideas about what could make a color picture work had finally come together. So I tried it and liked it.

But it took a long time!

[reellis67]

I find it somewhat difficult to do both at the same time. I tend to see subjects either as black and white or as color, but not as either/or. When I do use color, I tend to photograph totaly different things than what I photograph in black and white. As far as color saturation goes, I prefer films that give colors as close to what I see as possible. For many, many years I used Kodachrome in roll film so I have a history of looking for a certain type of result which may affect my expectations in a sheet film.

If you don't like the E100G colors, try some E100VS - I find it to be more saturated than the G. There is also a GX version that is supposed to have warmer colors, but I've not used any so I can't really comment on it other than to repeat what Kodak says.

- Randy

[paulr]

I tend to see subjects either as black and white or as color, but not as either/or.

i have the same experience. not sure how much how much of it is the subject matter or my state of mind ... probably the latter, since the world will appear in color to me for long stretches and in monochrome for other long stretches.

[Oren Grad]

A few observations:

I agree with Paul re previsualization and seeing.

Not everyone can "switch hit" successfully. You might take a look at the book "Ansel Adams in Color" and see what you think.

Paul's explorations in color with a medium format camera remind that in getting a handle on the different experiences of working in color and B&W, it can sometimes be useful to further differentiate them by working in different formats.

Some of you may be familiar with the work of Carl Weese; Carl's a master of LF/ULF Pt/Pd. Recently, in addition to his LF stuff, Carl's been working pretty intensively with an Olympus E-1. He's just started a blog, Working Pictures, with daily postings of snaps from the Olympus. These are very much about color as well as whatever it is the camera is pointed at. Looking at the Pt/Pd work on Carl's website and following the blog will be an interesting opportunity to see how an accomplished photographer with well-developed visual sensibilities works those out in two very different media.

[John Brady]

Interesting subject, I started shooting black and white when I was a kid. I always felt I was able to see subject matter as it would relate to a black and white print.

Several years ago I started mixing color via velvia 50 and 100 into my photography. I agree with you Randy, I tend to look for different subject matter with color than I do when shooting B&W. It took me a while till I started producing images I was happy with. In black and white contrast was my friend, in color it was the kiss of death.

I like my B&W images the best but most people who see my work prefer my color. I think the average person lacks appreciation for B&W.

As a side note, I talked to Clyde Butcher about shooting color and B&W. His opinion was pick one or the other, you will never master both. I tend to agree.

jb

[CXC]

I'm not one for subtleties: for me, color is part of the subject or not. If it is, then color film is required; if not, then B&W is highly preferred, since it eliminates the distracting and irrelevant color.

For 4x5 I usually carry both, and use whichever is appropriate for each individual shot. For 8x10 I generally carry only one (usu. B&W), and I skip potential images that would be better suited by the other.

[paulr]

I'm not one for subtleties: for me, color is part of the subject or no

um ... you mean sometimes you go places that are monochromatic?

based on all the existing work out there, including strong b+w work made from colorful subjects, and nearly monochrome work made with color materials (one of many examples: http://www.urbanlandscape.org.uk/bflowers/mega.htm )
it seems to be a matter of great subtlety.

and i agree with Oren that scenes of strong tonal contrast are not the great draw for black and white materials (although every photo student inevitably goes through a super high contrast phase). seems to me that subtle tonal relationships are where the pay dirt is in the greatest black and white work.

likewise subtle color relationships might be what sets great color work apart from the rest. just as in painting.

[Oren Grad]

seems to me that subtle tonal relationships are where the pay dirt is in the greatest black and white work.

likewise subtle color relationships might be what sets great color work apart from the rest. just as in painting.

I agree. In this respect I don't think color is different from B&W, though I think it's more difficult to pull it off in color.