Had a question concerning these two cameras (well actually not only these but their 8x10 counterparts with 4x10 backs. How do they compare from build quality/ridgidity standpoint? Also, ease of use for as primarily field camera? And does anyone make a 4x10 back for a Deardorff (I've seen the half 8x10 masks/dark slides)?
Shen Hao appears to have only a single agent in US (Badger). Are there other places to get these in the US.
Thanks!
Stew
You can get Shen Hao from several other places in the US. Midwest and The View Camera STore to name two.
As far as comparing a Shen Hao to a Canham they both get the job done. You need to make the comparison and decide for yourself whether the additional quality in the Canham is something you feel you need and can afford.
Thanks!
I've emailed Jim at Midwest about the Canham and spoken to Keith as well, but will now go back to him (Jim) on the Shen Hao. You mentioned the better quality of the Canham and its value as a judgement issue, and I appreciate that comment.
Still interested in the Dorff 4x10 alternative as well, if one exists outside the split darkside approach.
Stew
Stew,Originally Posted by squiress
Do you plan to shoot both 4x10 and 8x10, or JUST 4x10? If you only plan to shoot 4x10, I recommend a dedicated 4x10 camera as it will be smaller and lighter than equivalent 8x10 model.
If you really want a 4x10 back for an 8x10 Deardorff, I'm sure you could have one made to fit your camera. Many years ago, Ken Hough showed me the 4x10 back he made for his 8x10 Deardorff. Jack Doerdorff could probably make one for you. Richard Ritter is another possibility. Even 4x10 camera makers like Lotus or Keith Canham might be willing to adapt one of their 4x10 backs to your camera (although the finish probably wouldn't match, if that's important to you).
If you do plan to have a 4x10 back custom made, be sure to send them one of the film holders you plan to use. There are multiple variations on 4x10 film holder dimensions (some are like 8x10 holders cut in half, others are more like long 4x5 holders). When using a format where there is no single standard for silm holder dimensions, I always obtain the holders first and then buy the camera, or have the back made, to match the holders.
Kerry
I don't think Deardorff ever made a 4x10 camera. Back when I owned Deardorffs I used to be very interested in their history and read as much as I could find. There isn't a huge amount and I'm not the world's most noted Deardorff historian but FWIW I don't recall ever reading about a 4x10. The split back you mention would do the job. I guess I'm missing the appeal of a 4x10 camera compared to an 8x10 with the split back (or even with a piece of paper covering half the ground glass) unless it's the weight factor.
Brian Ellis
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
I'm not sure if the 4x10 reducing back Ken Hough showed me was a standard Deardorff item or a one-of-a-kind custom-made back that he built. I seem to recall him mentioning at the time (but this was about 15 years ago, so my memory might be faulty) that Deardorff either made a small number of these backs (4 or 5), or they made the parts for the backs and he assembled them. In any case, it's a rare item. The one Ken showed me used the old Kodak/Lisco style 4x10 x-ray holders that Ron Wisner chose as the film holder standard for his 4x10 cameras (Ken had been given a number of these holders, unused in their original boxes by a local veterenarian). As these holders are almost impossible to find these days, I highly recommend a camera/back that is compatible with the 4x10 holders Keith Canham makes. They are, by far, the most affordable new 4x10 holders and the easiest to get.
Weight and bulk. In addition to being a few pounds lighter than a comparable 8x10 model, a 4x10 camera will also fold down much smaller. Both these traits are important if you plan to carry the camera very far and especially important if you plan to backpack with your 4x10 gear.
Kerry
I really don't think it makes sense to go through all the trouble and expense of obtaining a custom 4X10 back and film holders for your 8X10 when you can just use the "half darkslide" approach, which has been described in detail previously on this forum. That would also eliminate the need to cut 8X10 film in half in the dark. If you all ready have an 8X10, it's definately the way to go; if not, it still may be less expensive and more convenient to aquire an inexpensive used 8X10 at least initially for 4X10 shooting- you can always resell it later if it doesn't fit your purposes. 4X10 holders are expensive and hard to come by!
I'm pretty sure that Shen-Hao doesn't offer a 4X10, unless it's a custom job. Are you refering to their 5X12 or some other maker's 4X10? In response to some of the posts above questioning the quality of the Shen-Hao, it is a very high quality camera, at least the 4X5 that I have. I also have an 8X10 Canham, so I've been able to directly compare the two (the Canham is very high quality, also!) If you are trying to decide between the two, I would certainly not let a supposed difference in quality influence your decision. Of course, the best thing to do would be to find another photographer or store where you can compare the two side by side. Best of luck!
Brian Vuillemenot
Additional data regarding a 4x10 Deardorff:
In March of 2005, Jack Deardorff sent me a product catalog/price list for his company, D.P.P.I. The price list is dated 2003. In the section titled "THE BACKS", he lists an 8x10/4x10 reducing back as "Price on Request". To give you an idea of approximate cost, his prices for other 8x10 backs are: 8x10 back - $551.25; 8x10/4x5 reducing back - $598.50; 8x10/5x7 reducing back - $598.50. I suspect an 8x10/4x10 reducing back might be a little bit more, but that gives you a general ballpark number. He also lists a 4x10 gridded ground glass at $49.95. So, it appears he is willing and able to make an 8x10/4x10 reducing back for anyone who wants to place an order. Jack's phone number is: 219-464-9748.
As I mentioned previously, just make sure you know what size 4x10 holders his back is designed to work with.
On a side note, the Canham 4x10 holders are made from 8x10 film holder parts that Keith gets from Fidelity. His 4x10 holders share the same thickness, t-distance and length as standard 8x10 holders. The only difference, is the width. If you're reasonably handy, you could make your own 8x10/4x10 reducing back by starting with a standard 8x10 back from a Deardorff or other wooden 8x10 back (these show up on eBay frequently). You could scavenge the hardware from the donor back. You would need to make a new base plate, which is the easy part of making a camera back, and then disassemble the ground glass frame, cut it down to the appropriate width, and glue it back together. You can get a 4x10 ground glass from Canham, Deardorff or Satin Snow. If you have the tools and reasonable woodworking skills, it would be a simple weekend project.
Kerry
I had seen photos of their 8x10 camera with a 4x10 reducing back in the past, but apparently they now offer a true 4x10 camera as well. Check out their web site for pictures and specs for their new HZX410-IIA. Like most Shen-Hao cameras, it's a bit heavier than the competition (4kg = 8.8 lbs.), but it looks pretty nice in the photos. I wonder what the price will be.
They also show one of their Phillips derived 8x10 cameras in walnut with a 4x10 reducing back.
Kerry
Unless you're really tight on cash and want an 8x10/4x10 reducing back, forget what I said above about making your own. Shen-Hao offers one for their 8x10 Phillips derived model (FCL810-A). Badger Graphics has it listed on their web site for $295. Unless you get a really good deal on an 8x10 donor back, you won't save much trying to make your own.
BTW, I think it's only a matter of time until we start seeing film holders made in China appear on the global market. I few months ago, I bought a 4x10 holder off eBay for $60 with "Buy It Now". I thought I was getting slightly used a Canham holder - that's what it looked like in the photos and the seller listed his location as the US. When the holder arrived, it was actually a new that was made in, and had shipped from, China. I later saw the same seller sell several more of these holders on eBay. Given the rising demand for ULF cameras, film and lenses in the domestic Chinese market, I suspect they are already making ULF holders. Once the domestic demand is met, I suspect they will start offering them to the worldwide ULF market as well - just speculation on my part at this point, but it seems a likely possibility.
Kerry
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