Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Patent Research Experience Requested

  1. #1

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    I have another project on the drawing board to benefit the ULF photographer in the optical arena and am looking for someone that has prior experience in researching US patents that could share a bit of your experience and time in the arena. Should not take long but I will be the first to admit that I am completely inexperienced and need some help.

    Thanks in advance.

    Cheers!

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,474

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    The best is that you don't need any prior knowledge. Go to a patent library, they will explain to you how you can find the related patents - in books, on microfilm etc. Any enthousiastic amateur can get it in 10 minutes... (the place is full of them...)

  3. #3
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    8,640

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    I hope an expert will jump in to help. FWIW, I've had good luck using the PTO search engine on my own on several occasions to find patents on topics of interest. The hard part is being sure that a search is exhaustive; for that, it helps to have someone who understands the quirks of the database and the best search strategies.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,474

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    I was working in a patent library... In New York.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
    Posts
    5,808

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    I find US patent searching using the US Patent Office site to be limiting because "Patents from 1790 through 1975 are searchable only by Issue Date, Patent Number, and Current US Classification". I've spent many, many hours looking one-by-one through numerous patent classifications looking for a specific patent. Even knowing the patent classification is guesswork.

    GPS... is there an abstract in patent libraries where olde (pre-1975) patents can be looked up by patent holder name?

    Also, USPTO makes one buy the patent. It can be viewed, but not printed or downloaded. The price is cheap ($3 each) and their delivery of PDFs is quick -- usually in less than 1 hour.

    The European patent office site is much easier to use because search of all fields is possible to the beginning of their history. Also, the patents are shown in two forms, OCR'd and original image, and can be downloaded for free. Many optical patents are in the European system, including Schneider and Zeiss. Maybe this would be a place to look also??

    http://ep.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?Action=FormGen&Template=ep/EN/home.hts

  6. #6
    Resident Heretic Bruce Watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    USA, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,362

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    I would point out that it's not enough just to search prior patent applications and patents. What you have to show is that your work is unique against all prior art. That is, if anyone has published the basis for your work (independently of course) in any form - like an article in Popular Science for example. More likely, in a peer review journal. For optics, be sure to do a thorough search down the telescope and astronomy lines too. Many interesting advances in optics come from astronomy.

    You can't patent an idea, BTW. You can patent a thing. You don't actually have to make one, but you have to show enough in your application that one can be made from what you show.

    And the thing must be unique, non-obvious, and perform a useful function IIRC. It's been a "few" years since I last applied for a patent. Sigh...

    The "easy" way out is to talk to a patent attorney. Most of them understand that you want to do a fair amount of the research yourself (you are often in a better position to understand what you find in the research than they are) and will point you in the right direction. Of course, YMMV.

    Bruce Watson

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
    Posts
    5,808

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    "And the thing must be unique, non-obvious, and perform a useful function IIRC. It's been a "few" years since I last applied for a patent. Sigh... "

    [OFF TOPIC WARNING]

    Not long ago I was discussing this with a colleague at work. One can patent an idea (sort of)... so long as it *appears* produce-able. It cant be a purely abstract concept... like gravity, or ethics.

    Bruce is absolutely correct in indicating that patent searching is difficult. Patents aren't always obvious. Many patents do not contain the common name under which they are known. And sometimes "concepts" are "hidden" in some pretty wild "product ideas".

    But there can be some fun in patent searching. Some people patent the most peculiar things.

    As a demonstration to this colleague I showed how to search the European patent site. So I searched for patents with "toilet" in the title or abstract. One of the patents that resulted from this search was a "male toilet", having a shelf upon which a man can rest his "member" while performing the function a toilet is designed for. The shelf led to a drainage port for any fluids that may be generated by said "member". The purpose for this shelf - the innovation - is to prevent the male member from coming into contact with the toilet water contained in the bowl.

    Unique... yes, non-obvious... probably, useful function...?????

  8. #8
    4x5 Camera Toting Tourist Nitish Kanabar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    64

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    Michael,

    One option is to hire the services of a firm/individual who specializes in patent-search. Most patent lawyers sub-contract this task to such a firm and pass on the costs + the lawyer's surcharge to you. Going directly to the patent-searcher may be more economical. Do be aware that some patent-lawyers will insist upon their choosen sub-contractors doing the patent search and may not entertain the search results from other firms.
    Nitish Kanabar

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Posts
    235

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    Uh boy....I am sitting here right now looking at my approx. 24 patent claims...lot's of paper and drawings...you can email me offline, and we can chat over the phone, if you would like.

    Here is the rub....I filed a provisional - inexpensive option...good for one year...then, the claims must be filed. And I chose no foreign filings, so guess what, NO publishment. AND, my attorney told me up to at least 3 years before they review it.....the patent office is very backed up....so, you can figure the problem....search all you want...so, if my patents are granted, it goes back to the date of the provisional filing....could be 4 years, 5 maybe....then I have to enforce it, if I have the dough and it's valuable enough to enforce. So, searches are a good thing to do....but are limited in terms of revealing whether or not you may be violating someone elses patent....

    So, why am I filing? Well, I do feel that I have some valuable claims, for sure. But almost as important, is that I put patent pending all over the website, and marketing materials and when I submit proposals to prospects, I am possibly preventing, or at least causing some concerns about stealing the ideas..... So, the process has value....

    It seems that what you are attempting to patent, 'may' have less activity around the concept? And as such, you may have a more 'productive' search and filing procedure?

    I did a lot of searching on the gov't sites....and then had a patent attorney do a preliminary search too. I found a few things to 'work around' but frankly, not much. Good luck. My advice, get a 'practical' pragmatic, patent attorney...

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    783

    Patent Research Experience Requested

    Michael, I have been in your shoes many times..... a few comments concerning patent searches and patents in general....

    1. Searching is hard, but that should not stop you.... you can hire a firm who specializes in this if the extra money doesn't burden you... like everything else, after you do many of them, you get a feel for where to find relevant patents.

    2. Its amazing how broad some claims are given, and if you idea violates any one claim, you are in violation of their patent. Of course if the patent has expired, just as bad, as your claims are not patentable now, which is why possibly going back to well beyond the years the internet searches allows for. For example, the broad claim of a fax machine was patented in the 1800's.

    3. Of course each product is unique, but sometimes you have to be carefully dumping too much into a patent, as they often get rejected, have little value as often their too many work arounds to accomplish the same task, or just out right infringement, in which case, the infringement cost will outweigh the patent cost by 40x. I read an article recently stating the average infringement case cost $450k to bring forth. Of course a lot of this is big business, not the small guy.

    4. Most, or at least many claims are not enforceable, as the entire process of acquiring a patent is very shaky. The process of interpreting such odd worded documents varies from examiner to examiner...what one approves, another would deny. So even owning a patent can not be assurance you have true propeitary rights, but it does force someone to contest it. Often just having a patent is enough to scare off copy cats, much is determined by how big the stakes are....

    5. By doing a thorough patent search, it enables you to see first what the examiner will see when evaluating your patent application, and this often helps mold your claims to squeeze in where there might be a little opening, hence the under estimated benefit of thorough searches.

    After doing many patent searches, i was amazed at the number of things people would patent....often they would patent concepts or ideas with no specific product whereas its useful, just wating for someone to come along and hopefully infringe it. this problem has proliferated out of control witht he advent of the computer programing and internet. Some companies specialize in applying for patents with no real intent, but rather they hope it will give someone else an idea to use it and offer them royalty. These were never the intent of the patent process, but in this modern day, it sure turned into this mess for new products to be introduced. The best one recently was Amazon.com received a patent on the one-click ordering button.... now no one else can offer this on their web site without their permission. I beleive it was recently up-held in a court trial....

Similar Threads

  1. Fujinon-SF Help Requested
    By Jason Greenberg Motamedi in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 19-Feb-2007, 21:31
  2. 8x10 Lens research
    By John Jarosz in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 16-May-2006, 18:00
  3. New Christopher Perez research on "bokeh" + more
    By Ken Lee in forum Lenses & Lens Accessories
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 28-Feb-2006, 20:01
  4. Manuals and related research tools
    By Jon Wilson in forum Resources
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 24-Jun-2005, 06:31
  5. research about Rodolphe NEUER
    By Michel MEGNIN in forum On Photography
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 27-Mar-2004, 07:06

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •