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Thread: What's going to become of photography?

  1. #331
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    I worked for NYC School Construction Authority with a Polaroid often in capital improvement projects making progress construction photos. We didn't use film cameras. We needed photos to verify work when arguments would occur later in the project, or verify subsequently hidden work was done correctly later, or use them later to estimate additional change order work. That was up until around the early 2ooos. Then we switched to digital cameras and many more pictures were taken. Sometimes videos. Of course, we could upload them and send them around with email. With the polaroids, we would Xerox and fax them, but got very poor results. Of course, none of the pictures were professionally done just taken by project managers like myself. Also, contractors themselves kept their own progress photos for the same reasons.
    Hey Alan I can relate
    The inexpensive cellphone has pretty much taken over the progress photo business unless you are flying a drone these days. A few years ago I was contracted to document a building being torn down: it was last of the 19th Century campus of a medical facility. Unfortunately the suspended interior walkways had been removed years ago during a remodel 60 years earlier and no remnants were left (I was thinking decorative cable anchors with plates on iron girders), but thankfully the stained glass lites (risers) (no, not Tiffany) set in the cast iron (probably Gorham Foundry) staircase, and the massive passive ventilation system in the cupola, decorative gothic fire escapes and other fun stuff were still there ... the guy who hired me was the architect/engineer for the job. He used his point and shoot and took all the photos he wanted me to take (with his phone) and sent me xeroxes and said "use these". Like the contractors in your story, I don't need no stinkin' badges! I was hired to make the photos, not use someone else's, were not the right POV anyways HABS is finicky ...maybe your photos were not from the same point of view [I] your contractor buddies needed, plus they were YOUR photos if there was a problem then they'd have to hunt you down, and then the insurance people would be like "did you take these or did someone else" ( you know like when you are at the airport and they ask if you packed your bag ) and how would they know they were "authentic" as you were talking about, you know, you could have fiddled around with them which brings us back to what I was saying before that there are a million truths (and untruths) to every situation .. it was also quite unfortunate that the architect guy's phone settings were set to store like 500MILLION 2kb files so I couldn't really extrapolate them, well .. unless he wanted a Nantzet, you know my version of Monet, unfortunately HABS/HAER requirements require in focus high resolution not pictorial/impressionistic imaginery .

  2. #332
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Artificial intelligence being automated to create fake images already came into its own with traffic stoplight cameras. Cities got more money and the out-of-State processors of those digital images got higher fees with a simple automated post-tweak between green and red. Suddenly, a momentary red blip on a web screen was allowed as firm "evidence". More like blackmail. You can call a Highway Patrolman to testify, but how do you call an allegedly infallible software app in an entirely different State and jurisdiction to testify? Can it be extradited? Got so bad back during the recession when cities were strapped for cash that local courts were forced to throw out all those automated citations, and the "camera" devices got either banned or disconnected.

  3. #333
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    Hey Alan I can relate
    The inexpensive cellphone has pretty much taken over the progress photo business unless you are flying a drone these days. A few years ago I was contracted to document a building being torn down: it was last of the 19th Century campus of a medical facility. Unfortunately the suspended interior walkways had been removed years ago during a remodel 60 years earlier and no remnants were left (I was thinking decorative cable anchors with plates on iron girders), but thankfully the stained glass lites (risers) (no, not Tiffany) set in the cast iron (probably Gorham Foundry) staircase, and the massive passive ventilation system in the cupola, decorative gothic fire escapes and other fun stuff were still there ... the guy who hired me was the architect/engineer for the job. He used his point and shoot and took all the photos he wanted me to take (with his phone) and sent me xeroxes and said "use these". Like the contractors in your story, I don't need no stinkin' badges! I was hired to make the photos, not use someone else's, were not the right POV anyways HABS is finicky ...maybe your photos were not from the same point of view [I] your contractor buddies needed, plus they were YOUR photos if there was a problem then they'd have to hunt you down, and then the insurance people would be like "did you take these or did someone else" ( you know like when you are at the airport and they ask if you packed your bag ) and how would they know they were "authentic" as you were talking about, you know, you could have fiddled around with them which brings us back to what I was saying before that there are a million truths (and untruths) to every situation .. it was also quite unfortunate that the architect guy's phone settings were set to store like 500MILLION 2kb files so I couldn't really extrapolate them, well .. unless he wanted a Nantzet, you know my version of Monet, unfortunately HABS/HAER requirements require in focus high resolution not pictorial/impressionistic imaginery .
    You just got me thinking that polaroids would have been hard to fiddle with like digital captures are. In any case, they were used for meetings and change order discussions. They weren't used as evidence in court or at least not for any work I did over 14 years. All disagreements were settled out of court at meetings between the contractors and project managers and change order people. Only a few with arbitration. Otherwise, we usually came to an agreement or compromise although our contracts gave a lot more power to the NYC end if I wanted to enforce hard decisions. But I thought I was fair having been a contractor myself before. Photos are only a tool, and a small one at that.

  4. #334
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Artificial intelligence being automated to create fake images already came into its own with traffic stoplight cameras. Cities got more money and the out-of-State processors of those digital images got higher fees with a simple automated post-tweak between green and red. Suddenly, a momentary red blip on a web screen was allowed as firm "evidence". More like blackmail. You can call a Highway Patrolman to testify, but how do you call an allegedly infallible software app in an entirely different State and jurisdiction to testify? Can it be extradited? Got so bad back during the recession when cities were strapped for cash that local courts were forced to throw out all those automated citations, and the "camera" devices got either banned or disconnected.
    Florida courts I believe found that equipment or monitoring companies did not have the authority to determine guilt because they are not officers of the court.

  5. #335

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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Florida courts I believe found that equipment or monitoring companies did not have the authority to determine guilt because they are not officers of the court.
    In California, those citations issued by private companies under government license are “signed” by a bonafide law enforcement officer. I couldn’t validate the signature on the one I got and so I wasn’t driving I told them to fly a kite. They threatened to take it to collections but it’s just a hollow threat.

  6. #336
    Pieter's Avatar
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Artificial intelligence being automated to create fake images already came into its own with traffic stoplight cameras. Cities got more money and the out-of-State processors of those digital images got higher fees with a simple automated post-tweak between green and red. Suddenly, a momentary red blip on a web screen was allowed as firm "evidence". More like blackmail. You can call a Highway Patrolman to testify, but how do you call an allegedly infallible software app in an entirely different State and jurisdiction to testify? Can it be extradited? Got so bad back during the recession when cities were strapped for cash that local courts were forced to throw out all those automated citations, and the "camera" devices got either banned or disconnected.
    Really? I call B.S.

  7. #337
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    In California, those citations issued by private companies under government license are “signed” by a bonafide law enforcement officer. I couldn’t validate the signature on the one I got and so I wasn’t driving I told them to fly a kite. They threatened to take it to collections but it’s just a hollow threat.
    I paid the one I got in Florida for a left turn on red light even though I felt it was yellow at the time. The issue of the red-light equipment companies assessing guilt was being appealed before the Florida Supreme Court. Others were already appealing the whole process. But I just didn't want to screw around with the ticket and have to deal with it. So I paid the fine and moved on. I didn't fight it plus I was living in NY and the back and forth wasn't worth it. Everytime I fight a ticket I seem to lose anyways.

  8. #338
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    ai programs 'ave been generatin'
    for years
    like the artist statement generator,
    or the talk like a gentleman o' fortune machine
    or grrrram-marly
    put in a few key words
    a sentence
    a long paragraph about...
    an' the program spits out a load o' semi barely believable bs an' it be kind o' impressive
    then the 13yearrr old 'uman poachin' their neighbor's wifi continues their catfishin' scheme
    they goes to another website an' posts somethin' else...
    lying, invented persona an' embellishin' the truth be nothin' new, it be as old as 'uman speech
    it be called bein' a bullshiteartiste...
    whether it be done with a photo-like image.. a person or some program a person uses.
    catfishers be kind o' jolly
    'annah b catfishes she be somethin' else
    it be 'ard to ai a local okie.

    I'm 3 days early but ...

  9. #339
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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    4x5 film image or...?

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    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

  10. #340

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    Re: What's going to become of photography?

    I don't see any of the typical AI fakery artifacts in the image, so although I honestly don't think it matters how the image was made (in this context), I'm gonna say that I believe it's a legit TMX film image. I say that in part because 1) I see wide angle distortion of the trees in the upper corners, and 2) I know you shoot TMX in 4x5, so...

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