Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Scheimpflug in practice

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    19

    Scheimpflug in practice

    I read Sharktooth's write up on this but by the time I would have done the maths, it would be faster to do in practice. I have watched Fred Newman's video on tilt and shift. He showed on his camera (which has base tilt at the bottom of the standard) on the front and he stated to focus on the near and then tilt to focus on the far and repeat 3 times. For rear tilt, he stated to focus on the far and tilt to the rear. Is there a reason for this?

    My Sinar handles tilting very differently to my Chamonix. If I have my descriptions correct. The Chamonix has axis tilt on the front lens and base tilt on the rear. The Sinar has base tilt at the bottom of the lens board. Will this effect the way and place I focus and tilt to?

  2. #2
    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Stuck inside of Tucson with the Neverland Blues again...
    Posts
    6,268

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandokan View Post
    For rear tilt, he stated to focus on the far and tilt to the rear. Is there a reason for this?
    Ye, there's a very good reason: habit.

    Personally, I select the critical focus points, then shift focus back and forth between them. That tells me which way I need to swing or tilt, and roughly how much. I have a very good reason for this method too: habit.

    Others will likely chime in with their ways of doing it, and all work fine and end with pretty much the same results.

    That said, "Scheimpflug in practice" seldom works in the real world. There always seems to be something sticking out of the plane of focus. Scheimpflug is a great theory for understanding a bit of the physics of focus and movements, but actually trying to use it will drive you nuts. As Yogi Berra said, "In theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not."
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    457

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    There are many ways to skin the cat, and some ways may be more convenient than others in certain circumstances. The geometrical method I proposed was just a way to describe the process mathematically, but it doesn't by any means imply that this is the best way to do it. Fred Newman's method is excellent, and can easily be followed with any view camera without any extra tools or calculations. Whatever floats your boat, and whatever method you're comfortable with.
    Repenting Sinar Blasphemer ... stonings at 11

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    457

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    I should add that Fred Newman is using an iterative process to find the tilt and focus. Every time you tilt you also affect the focus, so you do this a few times to narrow down the best position. The number of iterations isn't magic. If you're first tilt estimate was bang on, then you may be done in one step. If you guessed your tilt wrong the first time, then the second time is just tweaking it a bit. Three iterations should almost certainly get you close enough for the girls we date, but you may need to do more on rare occasions.
    Repenting Sinar Blasphemer ... stonings at 11

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    19

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    Thanks folks. I guess you are saying that "focus on near - tilt to far", and "focus on far - tilt to rear" will both work with both lens tilt and rear standard tilt?

    But will tilt be different for these?
    i.e. with first one, top of lens board will tilt towards objects
    but with second one, top of lens board will tilt away from objects
    ?

    I will try this in practice just to see if simple physics is confusing me (almost 40 years since I last did lens calculations)

  6. #6
    New Orleans, LA
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    640

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    For my money the best description of how to use Scheimpflug in practice in real world situations is in Steve Simmons’ book “Using the View Camera.” Been doing it that way since the early 1990’s. It’s simple, visual, and quick. No math!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    19

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    Let me see if I can obtain that book

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    457

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandokan View Post
    Thanks folks. I guess you are saying that "focus on near - tilt to far", and "focus on far - tilt to rear" will both work with both lens tilt and rear standard tilt?

    But will tilt be different for these?
    i.e. with first one, top of lens board will tilt towards objects
    but with second one, top of lens board will tilt away from objects
    ?

    I will try this in practice just to see if simple physics is confusing me (almost 40 years since I last did lens calculations)
    Don't worry about the physics, it just overcomplicates things.

    Think about a plane of focus. With a 35mm camera, your plane of focus will always be parallel to the film back. With a view camera, you can tilt the lens board in the direction you want to move the plane of focus. If you tilt the top of the lens board forward, then the focus plane also tilts forward. Just be aware that a small lens board tilt creates a much greater tilt in the focus plane, but it's always in the same direction.

    In many landscape shots you'll have some foreground objects at ground level close to the camera, and some tall trees off in the distance. To get all of these in focus, you can envision an imaginary board that sits on top of the foreground objects, and on top of the tree. This could be your imaginary plane of focus. Now tilt the lens board in the same direction, but only a few degrees. When you focus on the near object (or the trees) they both should be in better focus than before the tilt. This will need to be tweaked if the tilt wasn't enough, or too much. The technique that Fred Newman, and others describe, is just adding a systematic methodology to achieve these tweaks. There is no magic or calculations involved. It's simply a systematic trial and error method. Once you understand which direction the lens board needs to be tilted or swung, it's only a simple procedure to refine the focus. The hard part is actually understanding which way to tilt or swing the lens board in the first place.
    Repenting Sinar Blasphemer ... stonings at 11

  9. #9
    Alan Klein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey was NYC
    Posts
    2,580

    Re: Scheimpflug in practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sawyer View Post
    Ye, there's a very good reason: habit.

    Personally, I select the critical focus points, then shift focus back and forth between them. That tells me which way I need to swing or tilt, and roughly how much. I have a very good reason for this method too: habit.

    Others will likely chime in with their ways of doing it, and all work fine and end with pretty much the same results.

    That said, "Scheimpflug in practice" seldom works in the real world. There always seems to be something sticking out of the plane of focus. Scheimpflug is a great theory for understanding a bit of the physics of focus and movements, but actually trying to use it will drive you nuts. As Yogi Berra said, "In theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not."
    So what do you do?

Similar Threads

  1. Scheimpflug in Practice
    By bieber in forum Style & Technique
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 18-May-2018, 19:04
  2. Scanner Practice
    By Cesare Berti in forum Digital Processing
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 23-Feb-2009, 12:17
  3. Practice Does anyone do it?
    By RichardRitter in forum Style & Technique
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 7-Aug-2008, 13:42
  4. practice paper?
    By a.paul in forum Digital Processing
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18-Dec-2007, 08:28
  5. Do you practice?
    By Norm Buchanan in forum On Photography
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 18-Dec-2007, 08:01

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •