Heico Perma-Wash vs. Ilford Wash-Aid Logistics?

[Gary Beasley]

It takes me a long time to use up a gallon jug of Permawash concentrate. I recently needed more and found it on Amazon of all places.

[Duolab123]

I use Kodak Hypo clearing agent. You might try Freestyle for Heico, these guys and Unique Photo ship liquids ground UPS.

[Doremus Scudder]

The MSDS for Sprint's Fixer Remover lists the following ingredients:


Sodium metabisulfite <10%
Potassium salts of diethylenetriaminepentaacetic acid <10%
Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 <5%
Glutaraldehyde <2%
Formaldehyde <0.2%

Sodium Sulfite is conspicuously absent (as it is in Heico Perma Wash).

I'm interested in the opinion of the chemists on the forum about how this formula works and how it compares to sulfite-based wash aids like the Ilford and Kodak products. Is it better? Worse? Hocus-pocus?

TIA

Doremus

[Bernice Loui]

Quick note on using wash aids.. Reduction in water usage. This is and has become a very serious consideration today as the supply of water is no longer so plentiful and to be taken for granted.


Bernice

[PRJ]

Sodium Sulfite
Water
Tray

Doesn't get much easier....

[MartinP]

I found it quite practical, and also cost-effective, to put a pack of the Kodak product (a single powder in a large sachet) in an airtight jar and weigh out the appropriate mount for the session when needed. It worked out as 27g of product per litre of working solution I think. The stuff is almost entirely sodium sulfite, so there isn't a huge danger of having an unmixed product in your spoonful of powder. Probably sodium sulfite is cheaper, but the Kodak product is more easily available in a normal photo-stockist and still isn't expensive.

[Duolab123]

I found it quite practical, and also cost-effective, to put a pack of the Kodak product (a single powder in a large sachet) in an airtight jar and weigh out the appropriate mount for the session when needed. It worked out as 27g of product per litre of working solution I think. The stuff is almost entirely sodium sulfite, so there isn't a huge danger of having an unmixed product in your spoonful of powder. Probably sodium sulfite is cheaper, but the Kodak product is more easily available in a normal photo-stockist and still isn't expensive.

This is a great idea. I suppose a small measure, like used for measuring ground coffee, could be calibrated to deliver 27 grams. I usually make up the gallon of Kodak Hypo clearing agent stock, save a half gallon in a full bottle, dilute the rest to working strength and store in a 2 1/2 gallon container with a spigot and floating lid. Stuff will keep forever away from oxygen.

[John Layton]

Have located my sodium sulfite and will mix a washing-aid working solution as others have suggested, and I have two questions:

One - I have some bisulfite as well, but as my needs are only for prints and not films, I'm guessing that it would be unnecessary to add this bisulfite to the mix. Is this correct? (BTW, my water supply is quite well balanced, neither excessively hard nor soft)

Two - Timing (rinse/washing-aid/final wash) recommendations for "archival" washing of fiber based prints with this DIY sulfite-only mix? Thanks!

[Michael R]

Bisulfite is added to lower the pH of a fresh plain sodium sulfite solution, which tends to reduce the chances of precipitation of calcium etc. from tap water. That's the only reason the bisulfite is there. Alternatively mix the sulfite with distilled water. Theoretically the bath is a little more efficient at the higher pH of plain sodium sulfite but I wouldn't worry about it.

20g sodium sulfite/l + a few grams bisulfite is fine. In solution it's all the same. It is the sulfite ion that does the work, whether supplied by sodium sulfite or bisulfite/metabisulfite.

Follow Ilford's archival sequence (ie 10 minutes in the HCA bath with agitation). The short water wash before HCA treatment is important. Don't skip that or else the effectiveness/capacity of the HCA bath will be substantially reduced.

[John Layton]

Thanks Michael! Interesting though...that from what I can see the Ilford formula is similar to Kodak's - but their suggested times are quite different...with HCA listed as 1min. rinse, 3min HCA, 20min. wash, while Ilford's is listed as 5min. rinse, 10 min. Wash-Aid, 5 min. wash.

Then again...Kodak does not suggest any "archival method specific" protocols for their product, but my sense from their suggested 20 minute final wash is that their suggested timing sequence would be effective.

Perhaps a longer soak in a clearing agent equals a more effective (therefore shorter) final wash? Hmmm...