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Thread: Which first Rear Movement and Asymmetrical Tilt Chamonix 45F2

  1. #41
    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Stuck inside of Tucson with the Neverland Blues again...

    Re: Which first Rear Movement and Asymmetrical Tilt Chamonix 45F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Mark, That isn't correct. The Chamonix axis on my 45H-1 is not below the frame but about 1/5 the distance above the bottom of the frame. So the picture stays in focus in the frame where the axis is. Which Chamonix do you have that puts the axis beneath the frame??
    Below is the type of Chamonix 4x5 I'm familiar with. As you can see, the pivot point is aligned with the bottom of the rear standard frame, not the bottom of the ground glass area. Yours may be different. But the location of the bottom of the frame will change compared to the pivot point depending on whether the back is set for horizontal or vertical.

    Either way, I'd still always double-check the focus after changing the movements. Perhaps it's just a matter of personal working style.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chamonix 4x5.jpg  
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

  2. #42
    Alan Klein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    New Jersey was NYC

    Re: Which first Rear Movement and Asymmetrical Tilt Chamonix 45F2

    Mark, Not all Chamonixes have asymmetrical tilts. The model you pictured has none. Here's a link for the Chamonix site showing the 45H-1 model which I own. Notice in the second picture down that the hinge point on the rear standard is about 1/3 to 1/4 from the bottom, (not 1/5 as I posted earlier). That's the point that will stay in focus when you tilt the rear standard.

    I will say that the advantage of asymmetrical focusing is marginal. The problem is often that the hinge line for distance might be in the sky where there's nothing to focus on. So you have to lower the front standard to pick let's say a distant tree top. Then return the standard to the framed position for the picture. Two extra movements. So you might as well tilt the front standard using the multiple iterations. Of course, if the distant focal point is on the asymmetrical line, to begin with, then the asymmetrical tilting process has an advantage.

    The other issue is tilting the back standard changing the size of the near objects making them appear bigger. Some landscape photographers like that effect, while others don't. If you're not happy with the effect, then you have to fall back to the iteration methods and use the front standard for tilting. Tilting it does not change the size of the subjects.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Oregon now (formerly Austria)

    Re: Which first Rear Movement and Asymmetrical Tilt Chamonix 45F2

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    With the Chamonix 45H-1 I have, the axis is about 1/5 of the way from the bottom. Often in a landscape, that line is in the sky where you don;t want to focus or really can't becasue there's no object to focus on. So you have to lower the standard to get the line let's say on the top of a distant tree. Then focus for distance. Then raise the front standard to the frame view you wanted and had originally.

    So what do you do with the top line if that's not on the near object you want to focus with the back tilt?
    As long as you're only using the lens stage rise/fall or lateral shift to reposition your lines so they correspond better with focus points, you're fine; you're not changing the position of the focus plane at the film/ground glass. Just don't apply a front tilt or swing first. If you do, using rise/fall (with tilt) or shift (with swing) will change the lens-to-film distance.

    Last edited by Doremus Scudder; 30-Nov-2022 at 11:06.

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Re: Which first Rear Movement and Asymmetrical Tilt Chamonix 45F2

    Sinar P/P2/X has asymmetric tilt and swing on front and rear standards. This can greatly ease setting up tilt or swing camera. movements front or rear, front and rear.. If combined tilt and swing is used these combined movements are yaw free. Again easing the difficult for the image maker to apply these combined camera movements on front or rear standards or front and rear standards as combined camera movements. Asymmetric tilt and swing movements are self stopping geared as are rise/fall/shift further easing the application camera movements.

    ~Know this camera capability is often far excessive for typical outdoor landscape images, but serious time and effort savers for in-studio controlled images..
    IMO, this is why Sinar P/P2/X/C and such are not popular view cameras today as the majority of view camera folks today do outdoor landscape and similar images that are not demanding on camera movements and camera capabilities. Once creating indoor images with complex set up and high power flash/strobe lighting these Sinar and similar view cameras come into their very own in what they are easily capable of offering and achieving for the image maker.

    Recommendations, are just recommendations. How and what camera movements are needed depends on the specific image. Alterations in magnification could be a disaster or absolutely acceptable.. it simply depends on the image goal and never always absolute.


    Quote Originally Posted by pchong View Post
    Interesting discussion, especially for a new user. I have two further questions:

    1. Is the tilt axis of the Sinar P system also asymmetric?

    If I am not mistaken, the Horseman LX has the ability to pick your tilt axis using a geared scale. This scale is available on both front and rear standards. Does this mean that the front and rear must be moved the same amount?

    2. In the Sinar manual, it recommends only using rear tilts for a subject distance of less than 5x the focal length. And not to use front tilts as this may affect magnification. Is it then a necessary trade off for table top or macro work to live with image geometry?

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