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Thread: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

  1. #11

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    I've found both TF-4 and TF-5 to be excellent fixers for both paper and film (including staining developers).
    And if you've actually devised an improved product, why not promote it?
    As for "so, you know...($)", I doubt that any new b/w photo chemistry will make the patent-holder wealthy.
    The simple fact is, all the b/w fixers will do the job. On the front page of this site is an article titled "Confessions of a Magic Bullet Chaser".
    Anyone reading tis thread should check it out.

  2. #12

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    I didn’t mean TF-4 is bad. It’s fine. I wouldn’t call it improved though. It’s an alkaline rapid fixer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Sampson View Post
    I've found both TF-4 and TF-5 to be excellent fixers for both paper and film (including staining developers).
    And if you've actually devised an improved product, why not promote it?
    As for "so, you know...($)", I doubt that any new b/w photo chemistry will make the patent-holder wealthy.
    The simple fact is, all the b/w fixers will do the job. On the front page of this site is an article titled "Confessions of a Magic Bullet Chaser".
    Anyone reading tis thread should check it out.

  3. #13

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    Good stuff. I like TF5 because it has less odor and has a great shelf life.

    One other experiment you might try - Bleach a PRINT completely and redevelop with 510 (normal dilution) to see what color cast you get in the blacks and if there is any paper staining. I would guess a reddish brown just based on the bleached negative. I get an olive-black cast using Pyrocat-M as second pass developer.
    The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
    http://www.searing.photography

  4. #14

    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    Eric, that reminds me: what’s your dilution for 510 when you’re developing for your salt prints? I get the impression that 510 is roughly twice as energetic as Pyrocat HD—would 1:1:100 be in the neighborhood?

    At any rate, I did catch Andy’s last few YT offerings—the last a manful performance, especially.

  5. #15

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    ....but then - there lurks the truly evil specter of full strength acid stop bath before the (acid) fix...bwahahaha!

  6. #16

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    Quote Originally Posted by CreationBear View Post
    Eric, that reminds me: what’s your dilution for 510 when you’re developing for your salt prints? I get the impression that 510 is roughly twice as energetic as Pyrocat HD—would 1:1:100 be in the neighborhood?

    At any rate, I did catch Andy’s last few YT offerings—the last a manful performance, especially.
    I have not tried 510. For Pyrocat M I am beginning to extend my time for 5x12 negatives to get slightly more contrast. Subjective to scene contrasts.
    The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
    http://www.searing.photography

  7. #17

    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    No worries, the only reason it’s on my radar is a “prepping” scenario in case all flavors of Pyrocat become unavailable during the Zombie Apocalypse.. Otherwise I’ll look forward to following your POP adventures.

  8. #18

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Funny thing is, all one needs to do to avoid the whole issue is go back to the originator of all the “modern” staining developers - John Wimberley. He started the “pyro revival” in the late 1970s, and has always used Ilford Rapid Fixer. Even Hutchings, who’s PMK was based on Wimberley’s developer, and who’s Book of Pyro is full of classic pyro hyperbole and questionable information, used a plain old acid fixer. Etc.

    The alkaline process thing has largely been promulgated by the ‘Cookbook guys, and one of those guys would appear to have a stake in it (TF-4 anybody?), so, you know...($)
    And TF-5 is a near neutral rapid fix - otherwise to be commonly found in the marketplace as 'odourless' rapid fix or C-41/ E-6 fix - Ron Mowrey essentially said as much (and was involved as a consultant in its formulation). C-41 fix is incredibly effective at getting waste dyes out of film - but that's a whole different issue from the formation of questionably stable couplers/ 'stains' in poorly thought out developers that would have a better chance at delivering higher definition/ image content transmission capacity if they understood development inhibition effects & the critical relationship to developer solvency with most emulsions for the last 60+ years...

  9. #19

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    Quote Originally Posted by esearing View Post
    One other experiment you might try - Bleach a PRINT completely and redevelop with 510 (normal dilution) to see what color cast you get in the blacks and if there is any paper staining. I would guess a reddish brown just based on the bleached negative. I get an olive-black cast using Pyrocat-M as second pass developer.
    The surprising thing is if you bleach back a Pyrocat negative, the stain image turns out to be orange. Whereas I share your experience that redeveloping a bleached back print in it gives an olive-brown stain.
    Since the stain image from a 510 pyro developed negative isn't all that different from a pyrocat one, my money is on a print treated the same way with 510 will also show the same olive tone.

  10. #20

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    Re: More 510-Pyro Adventures!

    Indeed. On the general subject of contemporary staining developers, without getting into the details, I’d suggest people use Wimberley’s, PMK or Pyrocat (Sandy King at least made the effort to do some sensitometry and provide some data/evidence). The rest of the formulas out there are basically haphazard concoctions. Throwing some basic ingredients together and getting an image on film is quite trivial, but going beyond that takes a lot of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    And TF-5 is a near neutral rapid fix - otherwise to be commonly found in the marketplace as 'odourless' rapid fix or C-41/ E-6 fix - Ron Mowrey essentially said as much (and was involved as a consultant in its formulation). C-41 fix is incredibly effective at getting waste dyes out of film - but that's a whole different issue from the formation of questionably stable couplers/ 'stains' in poorly thought out developers that would have a better chance at delivering higher definition/ image content transmission capacity if they understood development inhibition effects & the critical relationship to developer solvency with most emulsions for the last 60+ years...

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