4x5 macro advice needed

[Bernice Loui]

Other stuff to consider...

Camera being a Canham 45 DLC has about 20" or 508mm of camera/bellows extension/draw. This puts an absolute fixed limit on lens focal lenght -vs- magnification. Ala, for 1:1 "life size" with 4x distance (camera/bellows) lens focal lenght puts the lens focal lenght at about 5" or 127mm.. leaving zero margain for focusing and related needs. And no, those "macro" view camera or similar lenses will not reduce this requirement much if at all for camera extension/bellows. This is NOT like fixed lens/fixed box digital or roll film cameas where "macro" lenses have a fixed back focus distance with the lens specifically designed for a fixed back focus distance.. does not apply to this view camera stuff.

~Viable solutions are to use shorter focal lenght lenses given the camera IS the limiting factor..

~Do consider using short focal lenght APO process lenses, reverse mounted enlarging lenses, macroscope objectives or even microscope objectives as these are designed for these image making needs. Some mean of controlling exposure time will be needed via shutter or similar.

At 1:1 "life size" lens image circle about doubles or 2x, lenses that can never cover 4x5 (154mm image circle needed) at infinity focus could cover 4x5 with ease..

At 1:1 "life size" there will be light loss due to the increased camera/bellows extension.. about 2 f-stops light loss. Figure this into film exposure.

Given the lens/camera distances invovled at 1:1 "life size" lighting the subject will and can be a very serious challenge...

Stability of the entire set up will become another issue.. any slight vibration, instability, alingment of lens/camera to subject will be ~magnified~ in the most surprizing ways.

Take the time to read up on macro image making on this web page:
https://www.savazzi.net/photography/index.htm

FYI, solution to making macro images.. Wild/Leica M420 with a ring light illumination system.. simply works, quick and makes macro images with ease and !_!_!_! results.. film or digital.




Bernice

[Dan Fromm]

This means it can be done with any lens, doesn't need to be a Macro Lens?

Given extension, you can get any magnification you want with any lens. So what?

Most lenses are optimized for relatively distant subjects. Sometimes very far away, sometimes as close as 20 focal lengths away. A few lenses are optimized for subjects at near distances. These give better image quality closeup than lenses optimized for distant subjects. LF lenses optimized for near subjects often have "macro" in their names. Process lenses are usually optimized for near subjects and can be used for closeup work. I've got very satisfactory results on 2x3 with a 150/9 Apo-Ronar and with a 210/9 Konica Hexanon GRII.

Most taking lenses are optimized for large subject in front, small negative behind. So are enlarging lenses. Thinking of which, I've got outstanding results on 2x3 with a 4"/2.8 Enlarging Pro Raptar and satisfactory results with an inexpensive 105/4.5 Comparon, whose cells are direct fits in a #0 shutter. This is why reversing the lens when working at magnifications > 1:1 is recommended. Above 1:1, there's a small (relatively) subject in front of the lens and a large (relatively) negative behind. Reversing the lens when working above 1:1 makes best use of the lens' optimizations.

[many]

After careful reading all the comments, today I tried again.
Thanks you very much for all your advice and suggestions.

Yes, a small digital camera and staking will make this job way easier. But, I am trying to be better acquainted with the 4x5.

The focusing part worked well, but didn’t yet passed to film. Now I am only studying.
Since I knew lighting was going to be a big issue, I first focused on my iPad.
First the icon, and than a 12 pixel text.
Than I tried what I think is a multi-angled dice. I wanted to see the depth of field on angled subject.
Theoretically all is going well and no big surprises here. Thanks to you guys.

I used a Canham with a 47mm lens and extension bellows at 40cm.

The main problem I find now is that Canham DLC knobs are not very strong and I worry that placing the film-back will slightly move the back.
What is not a very big issue when photographing distant subjects, at close-up will get me an obvious out of focus.
That I have to try by myself, but on the meantime,

Anyone here with field camera doing close-up or macro?
Any trouble placing the film-backs?
How you deal with it?

On the next post I will include the images, in case someone is curious or can detect something.

[many]

[Edison]

Other stuff to consider...


At 1:1 "life size" lens image circle about doubles or 2x, lenses that can never cover 4x5 (154mm image circle needed) at infinity focus could cover 4x5 with ease..

At 1:1 "life size" there will be light loss due to the increased camera/bellows extension.. about 2 f-stops light loss. Figure this into film exposure.



Bernice

Are these directly related?

[Bernice Loui]

Yes, ala "Inverse Square Law"..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAjHb-o2WzQ

or

https://www.chegg.com/learn/physics/...rse-square-law


Bernice

As for "macro" photography .. just add camera/bellows/dark box extension between lens and film holder..
https://www.diyphotography.net/i-tur...-macro-camera/


Bernice

Are these directly related?

[Bernice Loui]

Depends on how deep you're willing or wanting to dive into this macro photogrpahy stuff.. There is little reason or reality as to why the Canham 45DLC does not do for making macro images as illustrated by your images posted using the 47mm lens. Lens/optics improvements can be made by using speciality lenses in shutter or mounted to shutter specific for the magnifications needed instead of a lens not optimized for the magnificaitons needed. Soon to be discovered the problem of focus depth or what is percieved to be focus due to the thin plane of focus from images produced at these magnifications, with the possibility of "focus stacking" a series of images to improve this very real_fixed given issue.

~Question is, does this current set up meet your current and future macro image making needs?

If yes, change zilch and continue making images is the current way using the current outfit..

If not, get a GOOD modular monorail camera (ala Sinar or similar) or GOOD copy stand with a proper copy camera.. Going off the deep end lands you into a optical device like the Wild/Leica M420 system or Zeiss Ultraphot system
http://www.optovid.de/mikroskope-und...396886629.html



All depends on what your image goals are..


Bernice

I used a Canham with a 47mm lens and extension bellows at 40cm.

The main problem I find now is that Canham DLC knobs are not very strong and I worry that placing the film-back will slightly move the back.
What is not a very big issue when photographing distant subjects, at close-up will get me an obvious out of focus.
That I have to try by myself, but on the meantime,

Anyone here with field camera doing close-up or macro?
Any trouble placing the film-backs?
How you deal with it?

[Tin Can]

I only shoot LF Macro in studio

I could use my 9ft tall studio stand which I usually use for copy stand

[John Olsen]

John,
“ Often an enlarging lens can work, but you may need to mount this in a shutter unless your anticipated exposure times will be long enough (like longer than about ten seconds) to allow simple use of the lens cap to make the exposure.”

This was my original plan, but can’t find a board to fit my lens on the camera. I searched various places, ebay etc.
Do you know where I can find one?

I've used my enlarging lens with a simple lens board cut out of thick matboard. It's not pretty but it's easy to do. It sounds like you'll be using it at home so don't worry about appearances too much. Black vinyl tape will stop any light leaks. Good luck.

[Tin Can]

Get and use Gaff Tape

You future self will thank you