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Thread: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architecture

  1. #11

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    There are a LOT more used and available Sinar modular bits around than Arca Swiss and their cost remains mostly modest at an excellent value to this day.
    An understatement in this member's opinion. A few years ago I picked up a disassembled 8x10 Arca-Swiss (Series 11 from the late 1970s as best I could determine at the time) camera for what I thought was a bargain price. Parts were in excellent condition but just not all there. I spent maybe two years trying to track down the missing parts... I believe the phrase "going down the rabbit hole" totally applied. Finally gave up and sold the pile of parts. In comparison it once took me probably only two months to acquire the parts to assemble a completely working 8x10 Sinar Norma Expert system which I still use today.

  2. #12

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    I was going to suggest Sinar as well, I second Bernice's comments. Much of architectural photography comes down to lens coverage and understanding movements. Is there a reason you want the Arca Swiss? It's a fine camera however very expensive. If you are new to large format I would start with a Sinar F2. You can usually pick one up for $500 or less with a bag bellows. It's an excellent camera to learn on and completely modular. Meaning it will always be able to adapt to your needs. Which is good as you don't know what you really need until you start getting a feel for how you going to shoot with large format. I have shot from 38mm to 1200mm on my Sinar cameras in four different formats. If you wants to grow into a more technical camera, you could later invest in a P2 and most everything you have for a F2 would work on a P2.

    I would start with the Sinar F2 and take the savings and invest in good lenses.

    -Joshua
    Last edited by Joshua Dunn; 1-Oct-2022 at 10:13.

  3. #13

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    An alternative to the 30mm extension bracket is the following. I configure my 171mm Metric with the 6x9 Metric front standard. But instead of using the Metric rear function carrier, I substitute an Arca Swiss, old style, Oschwald era Type A, rear function carrier. It carries the rear Metric format frame lower than the rear Metric function carrier, so there's better alignment between the rear and front format frames. In this way, I need only use about 7mm of front 6x9 rise to make the front format frame on axis with the rear.

    The nice thing about the Type A, versus the Type B or Type C Oschwald function carriers, is that it has no tilt. So, improved chances of front and rear being parallel. This is no problem, because I prefer front to rear tilt. Besides, rear "tilt" can still be effetively achieved by using the tripod head. The Type C function carrier has swing. Cosmetically, Type C function carriers are silver. (But, I have a very rare black Type C.)

    While I have the 30mm extension, I've never found it necessary to use. Besides, changing back and forth is annoyingly fidgity.

    My camera has the 171mm Metric rear functiion carrier. But I'm thinking that there would be less front rise needed to align front with back using a 141mm rear Metric format frame.
    Last edited by neil poulsen; 2-Oct-2022 at 05:19.

  4. #14
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architecture

    I'm in the Sinar camp, too....but....I borrowed an Arca f-line from a friend. I used it for about 2 months. It's the nicest multi-purpose camera that I've used, being better than the Sinar F2s, P, and P2 that I have when it came to packability and use. I prefer the ARCA rails, and the manual movements were so smooth that I didn't miss geared movements. I haven't used a Norma. I'm sure they're great. Sinar makes the most financial sense, but then LF doesn't really make financial sense anyway.
    ďYou often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.Ē
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  5. #15

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    Quote Originally Posted by tom roe View Post
    Thanks for your reply. Often the maximum amount which says 12mm for the canon tilt shifts. Does that equate to large format though?
    With 35mm, 12mm shift gets you halfway across the short dimension of the sensor (film). Proportionately, 25mm would be plenty of shift for MF, while 50mm would be needed for 4x5.

    I have an Arca Swiss w/ 110mm front, and Sinar F, P (with Arca 110 adapters). As everyone else has said, the Sinars are fully capable and much more widely & cheaply available. Their downside is more bulk in the pack. I greatly prefer the Arca for itís compact, elegant design (very subjective). I use the Arca for multiple formats: 35mm & MF digital, MF & 4x5 film. This is another plus for the Arca, enough precision for the smaller formats.

    My standard bellows for 65, 90, 135, 210mm 4x5 lenses is a custom hybrid that is mostly pleated with a flexible bag section in the front. I think Chamonix cameras use this style? 65mm lenses donít allow much movement on 4x5 anyway, so this gives me what I need.

    Maybe figure out what you want with the Sinar first, then move to the Arca once you know exactly what you need. You may have to buy the Arca new rather than used, but by that point youíll know if itís worth it to you.

  6. #16

    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_b View Post
    My standard bellows for 65, 90, 135, 210mm 4x5 lenses is a custom hybrid that is mostly pleated with a flexible bag section in the front. I think Chamonix cameras use this style?
    where did you get this custom hybrid bellows made?

    my goal is to use a 150mm on an arca 5x7, which from my experience using on deardroff 5x7 seems right on the line between standard and bag bellows, closer to bag when shooting a building with max front rise applied....

  7. #17

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architecture

    Yes, Arca Swiss makes nice precision/accurate view cameras.

    Sinar makes a camera system that is modular like Arca Swiss, the Sinar system is simply FAR more extensive, more configurable, easier and lower cost to obtain camera modules and better overall compatibility. Then add the Sinar shutter which allows using optics from microscope objectives to centuries young lenses in barrel with good shutter timing accuracy/precision/repeatability. There is also the behind the lens metering system, filter system and lots more..

    While the Arca Swiss rack geared rail is nice, it will be pressed if greatly extended in cases such as being used with long focal lenght APO process lenses or similar macro work. The Sinar modular rail is rigid and strong (more than the Arca Swiss rail due to design) enough to set up as a camera copy stand.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sinar Silly_ness
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    Then there are the non view camera applications of using the Sinar modules..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Configured to meet the needs of a video/cinema producer that needed to produce cinema images of a view camera's gorund glass image..
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    As for digital, bendable cameras like the

    Linhof M679..
    https://linhof.com/en/linhof-m-679cs/

    Sinar P3.. variation of the Sinar P..
    https://sinar.swiss/products/cameras/p3-df-en-us/

    Arca Swiss..
    https://www.captureintegration.com/a...-0abc3cb0-9142

    Cambo..
    https://www.cambo.com/en/view-cam/ac...5-view-camera/

    Toyo..
    http://www.toyoview.com/Products/VX23D/23D.html

    Digital centric view cameras should be a differnt kettle of pixels due to the size of the solid state imager device requiring more precision/accuracy smaller camera movements and accommodation for different lenses that are inteted for solid state image sensors.. Yet the basic foundation of how a view camera works is the same.


    It comes down to the system capability of Sinar far beyond just a view camera and what the image goals/needs are.

    Bernice

  8. #18

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    Quote Originally Posted by Chester McCheeserton View Post
    where did you get this custom hybrid bellows made?

    my goal is to use a 150mm on an arca 5x7, which from my experience using on deardroff 5x7 seems right on the line between standard and bag bellows, closer to bag when shooting a building with max front rise applied....
    I made it myself, sized for my application. I'm traveling at the moment, so don't have a photo of it at hand.

  9. #19

    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    Quote Originally Posted by alan_b View Post
    I made it myself, sized for my application. I'm traveling at the moment, so don't have a photo of it at hand.

    Oh Cool Thanks...would love to see a photo of it someday

  10. #20

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    Re: Arca Swiss F-Line Metric vs Metric C Field for architceture

    Quote Originally Posted by Chester McCheeserton View Post
    Oh Cool Thanks...would love to see a photo of it someday
    Here you go - shown on camera w/ 25mm rear fall, 12mm shift. Since my camera only has 35mm shift in any direction, I just left out the stiffeners for the first couple of pleat rows to give enough flexibility. For more movements, you'd probably want more flexibility.

    Click image for larger version. 

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