Longevity of stock TF-5 Archival Rapid Fix?

[Doremus Scudder]

I use TF5 only for film with pyrocatM because it does not reduce the stain color - For paper I have always used small bottles of Ilford rapid fix because its what I can buy locally. I did try Wolfgang Moersch's Lobotype process and found that TF5 fixer gave me a grayer tone than TF4 or Hypo alone. For Salt prints TF4.

I did a residual test after the bottle had been open about 18 months. Maybe will try again next print session.

I don't know about Pyrocat, but using Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam with PMK negatives has no influence on the stain (despite the PF instruction sheet - I guess Michael that you're correct about the unreliability of the PF instructions...). I've use TF-4 with PMK negs as well as Kodak and Ilford rapid fixers and saw no difference in stain formation.

That's not to say you shouldn't use TF-5, just that, maybe, the notion that more acidic fixers affect Pyrocat stain is false.

Best,

Doremus

[motocbiker]

Does anyway have or know where to locate the formula for TF4 & TF5?

My inital earches have come up empty handed.

Thanks very much.

[Michael R]

They are proprietary so you will not find them. They are not magical - essentially ammonium thiosulfate-based, like any standard rapid fixer, but with some additional compounds not disclosed. TF-4 is alkaline. TF-5 is neutral (preferred) and was formulated with the assistance of Ron Mowrey (former Kodak emulsion engineer) who incidentally designed various novel fixer formulas of his own (one of which can be home-mixed), although TF-5 is more conventional. Kodak's Flexicolor fixer is similar.

If you want to home-mix a neutral rapid fix, it is quite trivial. Ryuji Suzuki's formula is as good as anything out there:

500ml water
Ammonium thiosulfate (120g or 200ml of the more commonly available ~60% solution)
15g sodium sulfite (anhydrous)
5g sodium metabisulfite
+water to make 1l working solution target pH approx. 7

Reducing the metabisulfite/bisulfite will increase pH (ie makes it alkaline).

Does anyway have or know where to locate the formula for TF4 & TF5?

My inital earches have come up empty handed.

Thanks very much.

[Tin Can]

I find TF5 mixed as recomened lasts very long

USE known distilled water

So long it seems to not diminish

It's MAGIC!

I buy 4 gallons at a time as shipping is best at that weight

If you have not tried it...

What do you know?

[Michael R]

It lasts long mostly because thiosulfate is much slower to decompose under a neutral/alkaline condition than an acidic one. Or it is because of magic. Whichever makes one feel better.

[Tin Can]

So you have not tried it…

It lasts long mostly because thiosulfate is much slower to decompose under a neutral/alkaline condition than an acidic one. Or it is because of magic. Whichever makes one feel better.

[paulbarden]

Does anyway have or know where to locate the formula for TF4 & TF5?

My inital earches have come up empty handed.

Thanks very much.

As stated, the recipe is proprietary to Photographer's Formulary, so you won't find it. The Ryuji Suzuki's formula is a good alternative with very similar traits.

[Michael R]

So you have not tried it…

LOL I did try a bottle of it a long time ago. It worked fine but nothing magical happened

I haven't looked at the prices in a while but at the time it was expensive compared with Ilford Rapid Fixer, so I went back to the Ilford product. TF-5 might make more sense for someone who needs a fixer to keep a longer time, but it wasn't worth it for me. Neutral fixers like TF-5 also have less odour, which is nice, but there are other ~neutral rapid fixers just as good. Sprint is an example.

It's too bad Ron never got to publish or commercialize the last iterations of his Superfixers (I think VIII was the most recent - it would fix in seconds, wash out of FB in less than a minute, and was apparently less nasty than Superfix I).

[Sal Santamaura]

...TF-5 is neutral (preferred)...

Preferred why?

[Tin Can]

I consider all analog photography Alchemy

AKA MAGIC

THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I SAW IT AGE 7

long ago with minox