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Thread: Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

  1. #1
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

    Hi All

    I am processing a large volumne of 8x10 film using PMK (1000ml) each tank in an 8 x10 expert drum. The lift arm has come off on numerous occasions and is not
    strong enough to lift by itself, as you can see by the jpeg here the drum goes over 1/2 the lift arm and getting ones arm below to help assist the lift though working is
    not smooth.

    Does anyone here have a lift arm lifting solution to this problem, Catalos did at one time make a lift arm assist and today do not and do not have any used ones.

    I posted this on FB and got a lot of responses, Most say they do this all the time with no issue, either they are using minimum amount of liquid and the container is light, Maybe they have an lift arm from Jobo that is longer than mine , or they are part snake man/woman and have the thinnest arms in the world. I have the Jobo CPP3 and I have talked with Omer at Catlabs about this problem.

    I have processed since 1993 on Jobos , I owned two Alt 2300 and we have processed many thousands of runs of PMK. Now I own this CPP3 which I love but this arm lift situation is very flimsy.
    any suggestions would be helpful. ( other than you do it all the time with your hands and the arm) thanks in advance
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by bob carnie; 29-Aug-2022 at 06:03. Reason: add jpeg

  2. #2

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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation

    I have a CPP-2, lift, and use the 8x10 Expert Drum all the time with, occasionally, 1,500ml of solution in the tank. What I do is: hold the lift handle with my left hand, stick a couple of fingers on my right hand under the angle of the plastic piece where the rails attach at the front, then lift with both hands simultaneously. I lower the drum back down the same way. After 25 years of processing with both the 4x5 and 8x10 Expert Drums I've never bent the lift handle. Lifting a full drum with just the handle may work a time or two, but, eventually, it will fail. Hope I explained my "lift procedure" clearly enough to understand.

  3. #3
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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan9940 View Post
    I have a CPP-2, lift, and use the 8x10 Expert Drum all the time with, occasionally, 1,500ml of solution in the tank. What I do is: hold the lift handle with my left hand, stick a couple of fingers on my right hand under the angle of the plastic piece where the rails attach at the front, then lift with both hands simultaneously. I lower the drum back down the same way. After 25 years of processing with both the 4x5 and 8x10 Expert Drums I've never bent the lift handle. Lifting a full drum with just the handle may work a time or two, but, eventually, it will fail. Hope I explained my "lift procedure" clearly enough to understand.
    Thanks Alan I will give this a try we are trying to lift from the back and its really awkward, I have film set up right now and will give a go today, I cannot believe how flimsy the design of the lift arm is.

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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation

    One of the Jobo info sheets for the Expert drums warns about this:

    Caution: The Expert Series of Drums will fit on JOBO CPA-2 and CPP-2 manual processors. Care must be taken! A loaded Expert Drum can be very heavy and strain both the rotation motor and lift of manual processors. Use both hands to help the lift when raising it...

    Many people may never have seen this particular sheet, though.

    I vaguely recall some discussion long ago about fabricating a more robust, all-metal replacement for the arm, but nothing came of it. Beyond cost, IIRC there was also a concern that doing so would just reveal some other point of vulnerability in the mechanism.

    I didn't notice the fine print initially, learned my lesson the hard way by breaking a lift arm. Since then I've carried most of the load by using my other hand to lift the rail / roller bracket assembly from underneath. Yes, my hand gets wet.

  5. #5
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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    One of the Jobo info sheets for the Expert drums warns about this:

    Caution: The Expert Series of Drums will fit on JOBO CPA-2 and CPP-2 manual processors. Care must be taken! A loaded Expert Drum can be very heavy and strain both the rotation motor and lift of manual processors. Use both hands to help the lift when raising it...

    Many people may never have seen this particular sheet, though.

    I vaguely recall some discussion long ago about fabricating a more robust, all-metal replacement for the arm, but nothing came of it. Beyond cost, IIRC there was also a concern that doing so would just reveal some other point of vulnerability in the mechanism.

    I didn't notice the fine print initially, learned my lesson the hard way by breaking a lift arm. Since then I've carried most of the load by using my other hand to lift the rail / roller bracket assembly from underneath. Yes, my hand gets wet.
    Yes it does strain both motor and the lift arm , mine has came of a bunch of times and is quite shocking when it happens, I am going to give Alans method a try today and report back, I will also see if I can
    find a Macgiver type in Toronto to come up with a solution, for long term.

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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

    I wonder whether some sort of handle could be designed that would attach to the rail / roller bracket assembly without interfering with drum mounting or rotation.

  7. #7
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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    I wonder whether some sort of handle could be designed that would attach to the rail / roller bracket assembly without interfering with drum mounting or rotation.
    I am going to get someone to look at my unit , I just did a run and like Alan said it does help but it still made a cracking sound getting my hands under the lift, I think its doable and will post a design if I can make it work.

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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

    There’s a new photographers’ machinist guy here who I’m sure could make something but that probably won’t be the cheapest way to go, and as Oren suggests it might just reveal another weak point that ends up breaking.

    If it were me I’d just jerry-rig something to help me lift heavier tanks without stressing the rest of the machine. It could be as simple as a thin plastic strap to sit under the tank support thing when using heavy tanks. Over the years I’ve made lots of darkroom doodads out of polystyrene.

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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

    Jobo lift arm has always been a flimsy design. The innate problem with the lift is putting all that weight of a expert drum filled with chemistry being pivoted on what is a rather flimsy plastic wonder part. It will fail, really a question of when, not if.

    Some where circa mid 1990's was given a Job ATL-1 with a busted lift mechanism. Remainder of the ATL-1 worked good.
    Solution to this problem was to manually remove the drum from the geared drive coupling, fill-empty the drum without the lift. Having done this manual drum handling since the mid 1990's it has always worked to this day.

    Other than the designed in problems with the Job lift, the design and build of the Jobo is mostly ok. The expert drums work good in many ways better than their roll film reel system and the 4x5 reel system which is sorta ok.

    The simple fix for the flimsy Job lift could be as simple as tying a string loop to the end of the lift rods to be used as a handle to aid lifting the drum instead of putting all that force on the lift handle and lift mechanism. The lift works ok with small roll film drums. With the large expert drums the lift is IMO, WAY beyond design capacity of the lift.


    Bernice

  10. #10
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    Re: Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

    Thanks Micheal and Bernice. I will look into a fabricating guy..... Bernice you may just have the answer and take the machine off rotation manually empty the tank put back on and restart the rotation,,, simple and eloquent solution, not the way the Jobo engineers envisioned but really practical, I will do this.
    I tried Alans suggestion today and it was better but still I heard that dreaded cracking noise,
    One of my clients father is a machinist and he may have an idea.

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