# Thread: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

1. ## How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Hello

I've just changed from Kodak HC-110 to Ilford Ilfotec HC, which are from all reports functionally similar. Kodak recommends 6ml of HC-110 concentrate for each 80 square inches of film, is there a similar minimum of concentrate needed for the Ilford developer?

I'm doing roller agitation of 8x10 with a Poilot (Chinese made clone of the JOBO) 2550 tank and reel that takes three sheets, which would require 18ml of HC-110 and at 1:47 makes 900ml of solution. I'm using the same volume and for the Ilfotec HC and did my first three sheets last night; apart from a tide line near the top (which is probably insufficient volume of fixer) they turned out well.

Regards, Vaughan (from Sydney Australia)

2. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Hi Vaughan,
The REUSING DEVELOPER WITHOUT REPLENISHMENT section in the Ilford HC technical data sheet, states that 1000ml of working developer will process a maximum of 5 films at a ratio of 1+31 and after that N/R.

Therefore, a calculation purely based on these figures suggest:
1000 ÷ 32 = 31.25
31.25 ÷ 5 = 6.25ml

Your figures give an identical result:
900 ÷ 48 = 18.75
18.75 ÷ 3 = 6.25ml

Bearing in mind, this would be the suggested minimum developer concentrate per volume rather than the best or optimum developer concentrate per volume.

3. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

I found Ilfotec HC to be a clone of HC110 and suggest 1 oz. (30 ml) of concentrate per 32 oz. of H20 to make "Dilution B" 5 mins at 68* gives me EI 100 with HP5+ and 7:30 gives me EI400. Both could be considered normal negatives. The 100 speed process increases shadow detail and smooths highlights a bit, good for use with plenty of studio lighting. 400 speed is best for use in the field or on location.

4. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Thanks for the confirmation.

5. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Let us know how your negatives look. I develop one sheet at a time of 8x10 face-up in an 8x10 tray, agitate continuously for the first 30 seconds, then 5 seconds every 30 after that until time is up.

You may want to research the entire process. I have posted this a number of times.

Years ago I learned an excellent method to find the correct developing time and EI for any film. I source was an article by William Mortensen. Mortensen wrote some excellent books and articles about basic sensitometry. The last time I did this test was when I abandoned Tri-X and switched to HP5+ due to cost about five years ago. I proceed as follows.

I set up my trays with my favorite developer HC110B (1:31), now Ilfotec HC (1:31). I pull out a sheet from the package in the dark. and then when the package is sealed again I turn on the room lights. This part of the test is done under the lights. I cut the sheet into five strips and mark them 1-5 by punching holes with a paper punch. Lets say the recommended time is 5:00. I want to see 3:00, 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 and 7:00, so I throw all the strips into the developer and agitate as usual until 3:00 when I move the No.1 strip over to the stop bath. Then I pull No.2 at 4:00, No.3 at 5:00, etc. I fix, wash and dry the strips as usual. What we are looking for is the best usable film DMax value. Obviously the film has been fully exposed! When strips dry lay down a page of news print on a table in good light. Find the strip through which the news print is barely visible. That's your developing time. Now to find the film speed.

Go outside in unchanging light conditions and expose five sheets and expose one at the manufacturers rating and then the other four at one half a stop and one stop less and one half a stop and one stop more. In the dark, develop them all together for your newly derived time. Contact print them together exposing and developing the paper for maximum usable paper DMax value through the film base plus fog negative rebate area. Pick out the best-looking contact print and you have your film speed.

Because my 7:00 negative looked the best on the first test, I did the test again with 7:00 as the central developing time and found that 8:00 was indeed too dense. This HP5+ time was the same as the as the developing time I had been using for Tri-X and film speed was also the same, EI400. I have also switched to Ilfotec HC developer due to cost and availability and find it to be a clone of HC110.

Many of the last generation of B&W gurus favored a development time of 5:00 for Tri-X and suggested an EI of 64-100. You can do the above test backwards, developing for 5:00 minutes and finding the film speed. I like 100. The difference between negatives exposed at 100 and developed for 5:00 and those exposed at 400 and developed for 7:00 is quite subtle. Both could be considered "normal" or N negatives. The 100 negative has slightly greater shadow and highlight detail that only a careful, knowledgeable viewer could detect. This slight improvement might not be worthwhile trading for two stops in the field. I do routinely rate HP5+ at 100 under powerful strobe light in the studio and it produces beautiful skin tones.

From here, if you are still with me, you can derive expansion and contraction schemes for both the 100 and 400 "normal negs". I do this by changing dilution rather than time. Make sure you have at least 1 oz. of the concentrated sauce for each 8X10 sheet or equivalent. For contractions I found that 3/4 oz. concentrate to 31 1/4 ozs. H20 yields an N-1 neg at a one stop loss in film speed and 1/2 oz. concentrate to 31 1/2 ozs. H20 yields an N-2 neg at a two stop loss in film speed. For expansions, 1 1/4 oz. of concentrate to 30 3/4 ozs. H20 yields an N+1 neg at a one stop gain in speed and 1 1/2 ozs. concentrate to 30 1/2 ozs. H20 produces an N+2 negative with a two stop gain in speed.

If you look at the chart of Tri-X film speed in Phil Davis' BTZS book you can easily pick out the film speed in HC110B 5:00 as EI 64.

Don't apply reciprocity exposure and development corrections for long exposures (1/2 sec. +) based on published data. Test for yourself and you may be surprised. I wasted a lot of time and effort producing long exposure negatives that were thick and flat. When I finally tested, I found no compensation was required for TXP or now HP5+ out to one minute.

6. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Originally Posted by Neal Chaves
Let us know how your negatives look. I develop one sheet at a time of 8x10 face-up in an 8x10 tray, agitate continuously for the first 30 seconds, then 5 seconds every 30 after that until time is up.

You may want to research the entire process. I have posted this a number of times.

Years ago I learned an excellent method to find the correct developing time and EI for any film. I source was an article by William Mortensen. Mortensen wrote some excellent books and articles about basic sensitometry. The last time I did this test was when I abandoned Tri-X and switched to HP5+ due to cost about five years ago. I proceed as follows.

I set up my trays with my favorite developer HC110B (1:31), now Ilfotec HC (1:31). I pull out a sheet from the package in the dark. and then when the package is sealed again I turn on the room lights. This part of the test is done under the lights. I cut the sheet into five strips and mark them 1-5 by punching holes with a paper punch. Lets say the recommended time is 5:00. I want to see 3:00, 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 and 7:00, so I throw all the strips into the developer and agitate as usual until 3:00 when I move the No.1 strip over to the stop bath. Then I pull No.2 at 4:00, No.3 at 5:00, etc. I fix, wash and dry the strips as usual. What we are looking for is the best usable film DMax value. Obviously the film has been fully exposed! When strips dry lay down a page of news print on a table in good light. Find the strip through which the news print is barely visible. That's your developing time. Now to find the film speed.

Go outside in unchanging light conditions and expose five sheets and expose one at the manufacturers rating and then the other four at one half a stop and one stop less and one half a stop and one stop more. In the dark, develop them all together for your newly derived time. Contact print them together exposing and developing the paper for maximum usable paper DMax value through the film base plus fog negative rebate area. Pick out the best-looking contact print and you have your film speed.

Because my 7:00 negative looked the best on the first test, I did the test again with 7:00 as the central developing time and found that 8:00 was indeed too dense. This HP5+ time was the same as the as the developing time I had been using for Tri-X and film speed was also the same, EI400. I have also switched to Ilfotec HC developer due to cost and availability and find it to be a clone of HC110.

Many of the last generation of B&W gurus favored a development time of 5:00 for Tri-X and suggested an EI of 64-100. You can do the above test backwards, developing for 5:00 minutes and finding the film speed. I like 100. The difference between negatives exposed at 100 and developed for 5:00 and those exposed at 400 and developed for 7:00 is quite subtle. Both could be considered "normal" or N negatives. The 100 negative has slightly greater shadow and highlight detail that only a careful, knowledgeable viewer could detect. This slight improvement might not be worthwhile trading for two stops in the field. I do routinely rate HP5+ at 100 under powerful strobe light in the studio and it produces beautiful skin tones.

From here, if you are still with me, you can derive expansion and contraction schemes for both the 100 and 400 "normal negs". I do this by changing dilution rather than time. Make sure you have at least 1 oz. of the concentrated sauce for each 8X10 sheet or equivalent. For contractions I found that 3/4 oz. concentrate to 31 1/4 ozs. H20 yields an N-1 neg at a one stop loss in film speed and 1/2 oz. concentrate to 31 1/2 ozs. H20 yields an N-2 neg at a two stop loss in film speed. For expansions, 1 1/4 oz. of concentrate to 30 3/4 ozs. H20 yields an N+1 neg at a one stop gain in speed and 1 1/2 ozs. concentrate to 30 1/2 ozs. H20 produces an N+2 negative with a two stop gain in speed.

If you look at the chart of Tri-X film speed in Phil Davis' BTZS book you can easily pick out the film speed in HC110B 5:00 as EI 64.

Don't apply reciprocity exposure and development corrections for long exposures (1/2 sec. +) based on published data. Test for yourself and you may be surprised. I wasted a lot of time and effort producing long exposure negatives that were thick and flat. When I finally tested, I found no compensation was required for TXP or now HP5+ out to one minute.
This is very interesting thanks! But I am curious, if development happens with the lights on, won't solarisation make the result irrelevant ?

7. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Originally Posted by vvplem
This is very interesting thanks! But I am curious, if development happens with the lights on, won't solarisation make the result irrelevant ?
When you make your film speed test negatives, you must process them in total darkness until into the fixer for a couple of minutes.

8. ## Re: How much conc of Ilfotec HC is needed for each film?

Originally Posted by Neal Chaves
When you make your film speed test negatives, you must process them in total darkness until into the fixer for a couple of minutes.
Makes more sense thanks :-)

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