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Thread: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

  1. #41
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Alas, Alan, when one's transportation is one's own feet for days on end, every single sheet of film must be circumspectly used. I've even been on several long road trips when the very best shot finally showed up, but I was already out of film! Now my strategy is to use roll film backs for the majority of shots, or even regular MF gear, and conserve the sheets for those extra special shots which warrant bigger enlargements. My next serious road trip might involve a combination of MF and 8x10 cameras, with the 4x5 gear left home. Hoping the price of gas will keep dropping until Autumn, my favorite travel season.
    Weeks often months can go by before I shoot a shot. If it's not what I want or think it's anything special, I won't bother. So when I finally feel it's worth taking the camera out and setting it up and actually shooting, the extra shots to make sure I got the exposure right are worth the cost. Especially because I shoot chromes mainly with their more limited range over negative color and BW.

  2. #42

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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    You got it. And many (probably most) people at the top of the field do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Weeks often months can go by before I shoot a shot. If it's not what I want or think it's anything special, I won't bother. So when I finally feel it's worth taking the camera out and setting it up and actually shooting, the extra shots to make sure I got the exposure right are worth the cost. Especially because I shoot chromes mainly with their more limited range over negative color and BW.

  3. #43

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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Bracketing exposures on film remains an extension of not fully understanding the limitations_abilities of ALL the photographic materials and process involved with print making and the image maker's print goals. This included having and knowing how what tools are required and using them to the best of their abilities and capabilities.

    To gain understanding and behavior of photographic materials demands testing ... as was the beginning of this LFF "discussion".
    In the specific case of color transparency film, this previous post examples how this was done decades ago as a common daily event.
    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...perfect-quot-)

    Once actual film speed to produce a given density and overall color balance of the color transparency film has been measured and determined, these metrics become the basis for how that specific lot/batch of film will be exposed coupled to the limits of the dynamic range of color transparency film. Much identical applies to B&W films like Kodak TMax... Don't believe for a moment B&W film is more forgiving than color.. to achieve GOOD print results demands the same degree of attention to testing as color transparency film. Doing less results in wasting photographic materials, YOUR time (not replaceable once spent), YOUR resources and much more..

    The working "pro" foto industry back then developed specific tools to stop the practice of bracketing film exposures by applying science and technology to remove the need for bracketing exposures which is in many ways guessing to deal with uncertainty.

    Clip from Sinar Info# 31 on Contrast Control..
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sinar Contrast Control FD.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	80.0 KB 
ID:	229924


    It is much about fully understanding the dynamic range and Latitude of a specific photographic material. It is why and how the Sinar ground glass metering system came about.. This is also why properly using a GOOD accurate/precise spot meter can work wonders to eliminate bracketing exposures.. to about zero.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sinar P2, FCMB1.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	52.4 KB 
ID:	229925

    Back in them days of color transparency film centric images for color printing and other means of printed materials, Fotographers that bracketed their film exposures lots were considered incompetent and "lesser" in many ways as long experienced working "pro" photographers considered exposure bracketing a serious wast of film and much more.. This discipline of making each and every frame or sheet of film exposed count seems lost today.. due to the non-cost of digital image making.. but appears to have been some what re-discovered by folks new to film image making.

    Take the time to read the complete Sinar Info# 31 on Contrast Control as it directly applies to this specific discussion and speaks directly to the belief bracketing exposures is needed.. the .jpg versions to follow..
    https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/01388/01388.pdf

    Discussion by Olympus Lifescience on film exposure.. info applies here.
    https://www.olympus-lifescience.com/.../filmexposure/

    As for, "Weeks often months can go by before I shoot a shot.".. Non-option for photographers that make images to put food on their table, roof over their head and meeting the demands of daily life and living... This is one of the differences between some of the very best artistic commercial photographers back in the day -vs- hobbyist or artist wanna be..


    Bernice
    Last edited by Bernice Loui; 11-Aug-2022 at 12:45.

  4. #44

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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Sinar info# 31, Contrast Control..
    Attachment 229926

    Attachment 229927

    Attachment 229928

    Attachment 229929


    Bernice

  5. #45

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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Sinar info# 31, Contrast Control..con't.
    Attachment 229930

    Attachment 229931

    Attachment 229932

    Attachment 229933


    Bernice

  6. #46

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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Bracketing exposures on film remains an extension of not fully understanding the limitations_abilities of ALL the photographic materials and process involved with print making and the image maker's print goals. This included having and knowing how what tools are required and using them to the best of their abilities and capabilities.

    To gain understanding and behavior of photographic materials demands testing ... as was the beginning of this LFF "discussion".
    In the specific case of color transparency film, this previous post examples how this was done decades ago as a common daily event.
    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...perfect-quot-)

    Once actual film speed to produce a given density and overall color balance of the color transparency film has been measured and determined, these metrics become the basis for how that specific lot/batch of film will be exposed coupled to the limits of the dynamic range of color transparency film. Much identical applies to B&W films like Kodak TMX... Don't believe for a moment B&W film is more forgiving than color.. to achieve GOOD print results demands the same degree of attention to testing as color transparency film. Doing less results in wasting photographic materials, YOUR time (not replaceable once spent), YOUR resources and much more..

    The working "pro" foto industry back then developed specific tools to stop the practice of bracketing film exposures by applying science and technology to remove the need for bracketing exposures which is in many ways guessing to deal with uncertainty.

    Clip from Sinar Info# 31 on Contrast Control..
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sinar Contrast Control FD.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	80.0 KB 
ID:	229924


    It is much about fully understanding the dynamic range and Latitude of a specific photographic material. It is why and how the Sinar ground glass metering system came about.. This is also why properly using a GOOD accurate/precise spot meter can work wonders to eliminate bracketing exposures.. to about zero.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sinar P2, FCMB1.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	52.4 KB 
ID:	229925

    Back in them days of color transparency film centric images for color printing and other means of printed materials, Fotographers that bracketed their film exposures lots were considered incompetent and less in many ways as long experienced working "pro" photographers considered exposure bracketing a serious wast of film and much more.. This discipline of making each and every frame or sheet of film exposed count seems lost today.. due to the non-cost of digital image making.. but appears to have been some what re-discovered by folks new to film image making.

    Take the time to read the complete Sinar Info# 31 on Contrast Control as it directly applies to this specific discussion and speaks directly to the belief bracketing exposures is needed.. the .jpg versions to follow..
    https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/01388/01388.pdf

    Discussion by Olympus Lifescience on film exposure.. info applies here.
    https://www.olympus-lifescience.com/.../filmexposure/

    As for, "Weeks often months can go by before I shoot a shot.".. Non-option for photographers that make images to put food on their table, roof over their head and meeting the demands of daily life and living... This is one of the differences between some of the very best artistic commercial photographers back in the day -vs- hobbyist or artist wanna be..


    Bernice
    For the professional world bracketing was how it was done - there isn't a single professional photographer that I met in my 40+ year career that didn't bracket or proof his/her film - most everyone "overshot" by a wide margin depending on the project and type of photography being done. There are a myriad of reasons, economic and aesthetic that this is done especially if you are working on location where the lighting conditions are variable or you are mixing strobe with ambient - there it is necessary to cross bracket (bracketing both the overall exposure and the ratio of strobe to ambient). When I was doing assignment work for Architectural Digest (4x5) I would average 16/20 frames per shot (bracketed -1 to +1 in 1/2 stops, 2 sheets each) and 10/16 sheets of polaroid (type 54) - we would do 12 -15 shots over 2 days - 250+/- sheets per job plus the same in polaroid. And I brought both daylight and tungsten film just to be sure, and a full 2 1/4 kit with film/polaroid as well.
    http://brucekatzphoto.com

    Original join date 2008...

  7. #47
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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    hard to believe bracketing and a film test is somehow considered "unprofessional" and really kind of funny.

  8. #48
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    hard to believe bracketing and a film test is somehow considered "unprofessional" and really kind of funny.
    Tin Can

  9. #49
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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    No images

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Sinar info# 31, Contrast Control..con't.
    Attachment 229930

    Attachment 229931

    Attachment 229932

    Attachment 229933


    Bernice
    Tin Can

  10. #50
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    Re: Assessing film speed and development time without a darkroom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Agree

    I guess we all can't be the GOAT...
    Last edited by jnantz; 12-Aug-2022 at 04:18.

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