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Thread: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

  1. #11

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    Jul 2008
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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Over uses ala spent fixer wil leave spots on the negative as the silver particles fall on to the film during the fixer clearing process. These silver spots damage the negative permanently with these spots.

    For some, this might not make any differnce at all. Others, even one nano single spot of damage on the film negative is completely unacceptable.

    Personally, one liter of plain fixer goes for about 10-15 roll of 120 film or about 20 to 30 sheets of 5x7 film or two to three months at most. Once past these limits, the fixer is re-newed. No exceptions.

    There is simply too much effort and resources put into film images that the "pennies" that might be saved by over extended fixer..

    It is possible for those new to this film stuff, none of this is important or significant.. as there are folks new to film that seek making film images for randon imperfections as a idea of creative expression.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    Fixer capacity isn't just clearance time. Have you considered how much silver is actually floating around in your liter of fixer solution? How well will all of this wash out of your film?
    Why would you want to risk let's say 50 worth of film to save 2 on fixer?

    There's a saying that applies here. It's "penny wise, pound foolish."

  2. #12

    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    For what it's worth, I use xtol a lot. It has a very fine grain and very sharp contrast. It's easy to use, and lasts a long time. The only drawback is that it takes a while to mix a batch up. I also use PMK once in a while.

    David

  3. #13

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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    There is simply too much effort and resources put into film images that the "pennies" that might be saved by over extended fixer..
    I agree. And that's coming from someone who even attempted to reuse a working solution of 1+100 rodinal when he started out shooting film! So I know how it feels to try and save pennies left and right. In the end, it just cost me a lot of time, it introduced uncertainties into the process and sometimes I lost or damaged images because of it.

    As to fixer, I currently use it one shot for film. Especially for sheet film, only a small volume is needed anyway, so it's feasible to mix one shot and discard after use. A single sheet of 4x5 film needs only around 20ml of fixer concentrate. You could probably get away with less, but why bother? It still makes for 50 sheets per liter - I call that very economical! And no more problems with jugs of working stock fixer sitting around precipitating silver and/or sulfur, uncertainties about silver content, clearing time etc. It works the same, every time, like new - because that's what it is.

  4. #14
    Niels
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
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    109

    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    I don't think it is particularly difficult to mark the bottle of mixed fixer for each film/roll/sheet processed and gradually extend the fixing time until the manufactures limit for the solution is reached.
    I find it convenient to have the fixer already mixed and ready to use, and only have to mix the developer. I am more productive that way.
    If one don't develop enough to make full use of the fixer within the one-two month, then the one-shot approach is the obvious choice.
    ----
    Niels

  5. #15
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Bernice, usually I Grok all you write!

    However renewed is not the same as replace

    Which do you mean?


    I use Poly ARKAY floating lids with top covers, the spigot is 2" above bottom sludge, 2.5 gallon capacity

    But I do have silver blackened inside stuck firmly to the Poly, it does not flake and has dried out for 5 years...

    I am about to half fill it with TF5 again

    I do the same with Ilford PQ, I reuse it until it obviously slows

    Citric acid stop made fresh each short print session

    All made with Distilled water

    Thank you






    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Over uses ala spent fixer wil leave spots on the negative as the silver particles fall on to the film during the fixer clearing process. These silver spots damage the negative permanently with these spots.

    For some, this might not make any differnce at all. Others, even one nano single spot of damage on the film negative is completely unacceptable.

    Personally, one liter of plain fixer goes for about 10-15 roll of 120 film or about 20 to 30 sheets of 5x7 film or two to three months at most. Once past these limits, the fixer is re-newed. No exceptions.

    There is simply too much effort and resources put into film images that the "pennies" that might be saved by over extended fixer..

    It is possible for those new to this film stuff, none of this is important or significant.. as there are folks new to film that seek making film images for randon imperfections as a idea of creative expression.


    Bernice
    Tin Can

  6. #16

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    Dec 2021
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    France
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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    I use ADOFIX Plus and manufacturer recommandation are 20 films at 1+4 or 15 at 1+7 dilution per litre.
    Given that one 36-exposure-135mm film = one 120 = four 4x5 = two 5x7 (roughly) it is reasonable to fix 50 or 60 4x5 sheet films with one liter of solution without even having to think wether the fixer is still good or not (assuming it is prepared and stored properly).
    My last batch was diluted at 1+7 and I fixed 96 4x5 sheets + 4 120 films before tossing it. I tested it every 15 sheets or so and clearance time increased from 1 min 20 sec (fresh mix) to 4 min 30 sec. I always fix at least one or two minute longer than total clearance time but manufacturer recommended time at 1+7 is between 6 and 8 minutes !!!

    I store my fixer in a bellow-bottle with zero air left and I never had any particle precipitating in it....
    Mixing fresh fixer every time you process is a total nonsense, unless you process once a year or it is a fixer designed to be used that way. Manufacturer recommandation are not fancy writings on the label, they are serious (and conservatives) data based on testing and about a century of experimenting.

  7. #17

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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Fixer is essentially a solvent, puts silver and other stuff that was on film into suspension. There is a limit to how much silver and stuff the solvent (fixer) can retain in suspension. Once this suspension capacity is exceeded, silver and stuff can and does drop out of suspension on to other surfaces and places ... like the film being processed resulting in spots and stuff on the film that are not so nice..

    This is the fixer that has been used for decades, very basic, not a lot special about it.

    ~Non-hardening fixing bath~

    ~Water 125F/52C 500 ml
    ~Sodium Thiosulfate (Hypo) 240 g
    ~Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 30 g
    ~Cold water to make 1000 ml

    Process about 15 rolls of 120 film or 20-30 sheets of 5x7 film, shelf life about 2-3 months max. Actual capacity is higher ..but no.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Bernice, usually I Grok all you write!

    However renewed is not the same as replace

    Which do you mean?


    I use Poly ARKAY floating lids with top covers, the spigot is 2" above bottom sludge, 2.5 gallon capacity

    But I do have silver blackened inside stuck firmly to the Poly, it does not flake and has dried out for 5 years...

    I am about to half fill it with TF5 again

    I do the same with Ilford PQ, I reuse it until it obviously slows

    Citric acid stop made fresh each short print session

    All made with Distilled water

    Thank you

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,025

    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Quote Originally Posted by Yourix View Post
    I use ADOFIX Plus and manufacturer recommandation are 20 films at 1+4 or 15 at 1+7 dilution per litre.
    Working stock, or concentrate? My bet is Adox' spec refers to the concentrate. That's 4 ~ 7 liters of working strength fixer, taking you waaaaay out of spec.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    France
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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    Working stock, or concentrate? My bet is Adox' spec refers to the concentrate. That's 4 ~ 7 liters of working strength fixer, taking you waaaaay out of spec.
    Working stock of course

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Re: First exposure with Frankenstein 200

    Be that as it may, if you insist on using your fixer to this rather generous capacity limit combined with keeping it around for several weeks or more, you're going to run into trouble sooner or later. At least it'll make troubleshooting easier when you end up with scans or prints this look like someone emptied a salt shaker onto them.

    And no, manufacturer's capacity ratings for fixer are not conservative by any means. Open any decent book on photographic processing and observe guidelines on fixing.

    The fact that you've never deen fixer silvering out is very nice, but you'll get to that point, no worries. You'll know what I mean once you see a nicely silver plated jar and suddenly realize how much silver you've been washing your film with.

    It's foolishness, but don't listen to me; you've got it all figured out apparently. I learned the hard way, you're entitled to the same experience. You're saving a few euros while risking a more significant investment in money and effort and there's no rationale to justify it. That's all I have to say on it; let's get back on topic.

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