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Thread: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

  1. #11

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Here's the Gitzo component (G541) that holds the centre column. It's mounted on my ground tripod. This is a very solid piece of gear made of steel. The interior diameter of the ring is about 85mm (3 3/8"), and (see the third photo below) the ring is about 20mm (3/4") wide.


    Mounted on the tripod:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Closer:

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    This photo shows the panning base and the interior width of the steel ring. The lower knob locks the panning position:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This final photo shows a closer view of the ring, with a U-shaped cutout in the upper right and a cutout on the bottom. I'll have the centre column later today, at which point I'll figure out how the pieces fit together.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I purchased this via Fred Miranda's site a couple of days ago, before I knew that the centre column that B&H was selling included this component. B&H's package is supposed to arrive this afternoon, at which point I'll apparently have two G541 holders
    Last edited by r.e.; 30-Jul-2022 at 01:55.
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  2. #12

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    It occurs to me that this may all be common knowledge to some people here. Not for me. I've never used a centre column vertically, left alone sideways, and there's close to no information about these Gitzo components on the internet.

    I've now received B&H's package, which consists of another copy of the lateral bracket (G541) and a copy of Gitzo's Long Geared Center Column G529. Labels say that the components were made in France. B&H's in-house label says that the centre column is a "529 Long Cremaillere Dual". Crémaillère is a French word that refers to the fact that the column is geared.

    The B&H G541 bracket is identical to the G541 bracket that I received this morning (see the post just above) and that I believe was purchased new about a year ago. The only difference is that the paint finish on the B&H bracket predates the distinctive finish that Gitzo adopted many years ago. There's some paint rubbed off on the B&H bracket, but it works perfectly.

    The current version of Gitzo's Long Geared Centre Column (GS5313LGS) is 4" longer than the G529 that I have, which weighs about 2.4kg (5.25lb). I don't know what the composition is, but I'm pretty sure that it's at least partly made of steel.

    This is what the centre column looks like if it's being used as a vertical centre column on a Gitzo Series 5 tripod. The centre column is about 80cm (32") long from end to end. About 20cm (8") is taken up by the black gearbox, tripod plate and large wing nut. This leaves about 60cm (24") of travel. As configured in the photo, the centre column would rise about 60cm (24") above the top of the tripod:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    These two photos show the gearbox, tripod plate and wing nut:

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    Those photos show how the G541 bracket holds the column laterally. The G541 ring fits around the circumference of the tripod plate. The upper knob on the ring is tightened around the plate. This means that the G541 bracket is not in contact with the column itself. This also applies to Gitzo's carbon fibre centre columns, which fully addresses my concern about using the bracket with a carbon fibre centre column.

    So what's the purpose of the cutouts in the bracket ring that I noted in the post above? They're necessary to fit the bracket on and off the gearbox and centre column. It's a clearance issue.

    As shown below, both ends of the centre column have a metal plate, covered with hard rubber. There's a 3/8" thread at each end to attach a tripod head. No hook to hang a weight. The 3/8" threads on the B&H copy are in excellent condition.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The gearbox operates smoothly, and as the photo below shows the teeth are in great condition:

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    I mention condition because my impression is that this gear is pretty much indestructible unless it's been abused. If one's buying second-hand, I wouldn't worry too much about hidden problems; if something's wrong, it's likely to be pretty obvious. The condition of the gearbox, assuming that one wants a geared column, is probably the only significant potential issue. To the surprise of the B&H salesman who sold this to me, somebody at B&H priced this on the basis that it was old gear that nobody would want. It may be old, but I'm pretty sure that it functions as well as one purchased brand new in 2022; and it's clear that the design of the G541 bracket hasn't changed in decades.

    In the next few days I'll post some photos showing this setup in use with a 35mm digital camera and with an Arca-Swiss 4x5. I have no doubt at this point that the Gitzo components will support a 4x5 camera. I think that the main issue is to figure out what's involved in keeping the rig balanced.
    Last edited by r.e.; 30-Jul-2022 at 02:01.
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  3. #13

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Gitzo makes a clamp on a panning base that will turn a tripod centre column into a lateral arm. It's made this clamp for decades, going back to before Gitzo made carbon fibre tripods. The clamp looks like this:

    Attachment 229511
    I have used a similar 90 degree attachment made by Linhof for their Heavy Duty tripod along with a longer center column (from my Linhof copy stand). The whole "contraption" works amazing well and is very stable. You absolutely have to off set the weight of the camera at the end of the extended horizontal column with a lot of weight. In the past I have used 3 or 4 bags of sand from Home Depot that were securely, I mean really securely, tied around the bottom part of the leg opposite the side of the tripod that the camera was extend out on. Weight of the tripod and the sand bags makes the whole system/contraption anything but portable, but it is a solution that works.

  4. #14

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I have used a similar 90 degree attachment made by Linhof for their Heavy Duty tripod along with a longer center column (from my Linhof copy stand). The whole "contraption" works amazing well and is very stable. You absolutely have to off set the weight of the camera at the end of the extended horizontal column with a lot of weight. In the past I have used 3 or 4 bags of sand from Home Depot that were securely, I mean really securely, tied around the bottom part of the leg opposite the side of the tripod that the camera was extend out on. Weight of the tripod and the sand bags makes the whole system/contraption anything but portable, but it is a solution that works.
    What works even better is the Kaiser copy stand with the 40 or 50” column. The column and it’s camera mount attach to the baseboard with one large hand knob.
    You put the column in a tripod bag and the grid baseboard in a portfolio case to transport it.
    Simple, elegant, always properly aligned.
    You can also put the lamp arms in the tripod bag.

  5. #15

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I have used a similar 90 degree attachment made by Linhof for their Heavy Duty tripod along with a longer center column (from my Linhof copy stand). The whole "contraption" works amazing well and is very stable. You absolutely have to off set the weight of the camera at the end of the extended horizontal column with a lot of weight. In the past I have used 3 or 4 bags of sand from Home Depot that were securely, I mean really securely, tied around the bottom part of the leg opposite the side of the tripod that the camera was extend out on. Weight of the tripod and the sand bags makes the whole system/contraption anything but portable, but it is a solution that works.
    Thanks Greg, very helpful. Why do you sandbag the tripod leg opposite the camera rather than hang weight from the centre column opposite the camera?

    Now that I have both components, I'm confident that the rig will be solid, but I also think that figuring out how to balance it will take some experimenting and practice. It's now clear that I have to view the 90° bracket and the centre column's gearbox/tripod plate/wing nut as a group, with their weight close to the centre of my tripod. That follows from how the 90° bracket attaches to the centre column.

    Tomorrow I'm going to start with half the length of the centre column (16"/40cm) extending from each side of my tripod plate and see what happens when I add a 35mm digital camera at one end. I'll take it from there, and eventually get to my 4x5.
    Last edited by r.e.; 29-Jul-2022 at 09:58.
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  6. #16

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Why do you sandbag the tripod leg opposite the camera rather than hang weight from the centre column opposite the camera?
    Weight hanging from the center column would be weight hanging from the fulcrum of the whole set up. Sandbagging the tripod leg opposite the camera is more effective... Think of a seesaw in a children's playground.

  7. #17
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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Yes, last overhead I did, I used a Manfrotto HD tripod that could lock all struts at different angle with the Gitzo 5 head

    The front 2 struts obviously short, but the third was fully extended with sandbag on the tip

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    I align with a grid and levels

    Then mess with it

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  8. #18

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    In the past I have used 3 or 4 bags of sand from Home Depot that were securely, I mean really securely, tied around the bottom part of the leg opposite the side of the tripod that the camera was extend out on.
    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Why do you sandbag the tripod leg opposite the camera rather than hang weight from the centre column opposite the camera?
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Weight hanging from the center column would be weight hanging from the fulcrum of the whole set up. Sandbagging the tripod leg opposite the camera is more effective... Think of a seesaw in a children's playground.
    This is a matter of personal preference and practicality. I think that it's more practical to counter the weight of the camera by adding weight to the lateral arm on the other side of the fulcrum/pivot point. This is the standard cinematography approach with boom arms. In my view, a lateral arm is the same thing as a boom arm, except that it doesn't have vertical movement.

    It sounds like Greg would agree that adding weight to a tripod leg is ineffective if the weight is at the base of the camera leg, touching the ground. The weight has to be off the ground, which as Greg suggests (at least as I read him) means attaching the weight directly to the leg. With a still camera tripod, and gravity being gravity, this is not simple. I'm unaware of any easy way to mount sandbags on a still photography carbon fibre tripod leg.

    With this approach, I also think that weight should be applied to both of the tripod legs that aren't in line with the camera. Unlike a centre column used as a lateral arm, they are at an angle to the camera, not opposite it. Indeed, I think that it might make sense to add weight to all three legs, as is done in the video below. This is fundamentally a weigh-down-the-stand approach, not a counterbalance approach. It's a more thorough, more effective version of using the weight hook that some tripods have to weigh down a tripod.

    Dale Sood has a video for Toronto photography dealer Vistek that I think is the best of the many YouTube videos on using C-Stands. There's a brief segment on setting up a spreader tripod stand when a C-Stand is a poor idea. See 3:34. Note that the sandbags' straps are connected to the stand's crossbars, which keeps them off the ground, and that weight is added to all three of the legs. Standard camera tripods don't have crossbars. Sood also stresses the need to keep sandbags off the ground at 3:00.

    Ideally, one would both weigh down the tripod and counterbalance the camera. Indeed, Sood demonstrates just that starting at 8:23, where he offers a way, in a pinch, to make a lateral arm/boom using C-Stand components. For my purposes, I don't regard weighing down a still photography tripod as practical. If that's necessary, I'll choose another, simpler solution, such as two stands with a crossbar between them and a clamp in the middle to hold a tripod head and the camera.


    Last edited by r.e.; 30-Jul-2022 at 02:58.
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  9. #19

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    The discussion above shows that the panning base on the Gitzo 90° bracket (post #11, 3rd photo) has an important function. It makes it possible to position the centre column arm so that it and the camera are in line with one of the tripod legs, which improves stability of the rig. Without a panning base, whether the arm and the camera line up with a leg is a matter of luck; in other words, on whether the orientation of the 90° bracket, when it's screwed down on the tripod plate, happens to line up with one of the legs.
    Last edited by r.e.; 29-Jul-2022 at 10:39.
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  10. #20

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    Re: Portable Solution to Make Overhead (90°) Photographs

    Won't a Ries platform head work?
    ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”.

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