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Thread: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

  1. #11

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    In my experience (which does NOT involve the Stearman, but I'm familiar with uneven development issues), 510 pyro is more finicky than Pyrocat in this sense, and Pyrocat is more finicky than all non-staining developers I've used so far. So basically 510 pyro was the 'worst' of the bunch in terms of getting even development especially on sheet film. This of course does not guarantee even development with another developer in this tank; I'm sure others with first-hand experience with the Stearman will chime in, but I remember having read about more problems.
    Interesting because looking back through some previous PytoCat 4x5 negatives on the odd one I do see this issue but not all and with with HC110 I don't see it at all. I am not experiencing the issue with 510 on 35mm so your observation about pyro based developers been finicky may be a very valid point here.

  2. #12

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    The 35mm film I did in 510 as far as I remember also didn't show any trouble, but I just put that down to 35mm simply not being very prone to it due to the physical properties of the film and reels, and the usual agitation patterns that are apparently mostly sufficient.

    If memory serves Sandy King did at the time when Pyrocat was brand new argue that he had optimized it to reduce problems with unevenness, but I may be wrong. In any case, I find it somewhat easier to circumvent the issue with Pyrocat than with 510 Pyro.

    Btw, because there has been some renewed discussion on 510 over the past 10 days or so, and I had the pyrogallol here anyway, I mixed a small amount of 510 a couple of days ago just to play with. So far only did some 4x5's in trays with it for carbon transfer, 1+25 for a few minutes. No unevenness as of yet, but I know this development routine easily gives even development on regular sheet film. The one thing that does pop out immediately is the huge amount of fog it creates in comparison with pyrocat. That's kind of unfortunate as I don't like having to print through all that unnecessary density. It really oxidizes like mad, this stuff.

  3. #13

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    The 35mm film I did in 510 as far as I remember also didn't show any trouble, but I just put that down to 35mm simply not being very prone to it due to the physical properties of the film and reels, and the usual agitation patterns that are apparently mostly sufficient.

    If memory serves Sandy King did at the time when Pyrocat was brand new argue that he had optimized it to reduce problems with unevenness, but I may be wrong. In any case, I find it somewhat easier to circumvent the issue with Pyrocat than with 510 Pyro.

    Btw, because there has been some renewed discussion on 510 over the past 10 days or so, and I had the pyrogallol here anyway, I mixed a small amount of 510 a couple of days ago just to play with. So far only did some 4x5's in trays with it for carbon transfer, 1+25 for a few minutes. No unevenness as of yet, but I know this development routine easily gives even development on regular sheet film. The one thing that does pop out immediately is the huge amount of fog it creates in comparison with pyrocat. That's kind of unfortunate as I don't like having to print through all that unnecessary density. It really oxidizes like mad, this stuff.
    Someone else mentioned to try tray development and although my darkroom is tiny 6 x 4 feet I could do it at a squeeze but last time I tried it with HC110 I got into a right old mess.

    I put the 4x5 in a 7x5 tray but wasn't sure how to properly agitate it and whether I had to agitate it continuously or even minute.
    I struggled to lift it out of the tray and in the end I took the gloves off but wouldn't dream of removing the gloves with pyro.

  4. #14
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Uneven development is almost always agitation related, particularly the beginning agitation, it should be vigorous. I use PyroCat HD in the highest risk type of film development known, as you know. Intiatal agitation is almost always the culprit.


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  5. #15

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherman View Post
    Uneven development is almost always agitation related, particularly the beginning agitation, it should be vigorous. I use PyroCat HD in the highest risk type of film development known, as you know. Intiatal agitation is almost always the culprit.
    For what I call standard development with Pyro 1+1+100 I agitate for the first 30 seconds and then 5 inversion every minute.
    Steve, are you suggesting that this first 30 seconds is crucial and it this period that should be quite vigorous.

  6. #16

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Quote Originally Posted by IanBarber View Post
    I put the 4x5 in a 7x5 tray but wasn't sure how to properly agitate it and whether I had to agitate it continuously or even minute.
    I struggled to lift it out of the tray and in the end I took the gloves off but wouldn't dream of removing the gloves with pyro.
    I was taught to always use one size larger trays--that is, 8x10 for 4x5. This alone could help with any agitation issue and would certainly make doing the agitation easier.

  7. #17

    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Ian, how many 4x5 sheets are you developing at a time in the Stearman tank? As an alternative to Stearman, you can try the Taco method in a day light development tank like Paterson. Up to four sheets can be processed at a time using a two reel Patterson tank as as shown here. Use 600ml of working solution with the two reel Paterson tank. Two bands per sheet usually prevents any damage due to sharp corners in my experience. An even better idea is this.

  8. #18

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    I am not familiar with the Stearman tank, but I do know that the most commonly used wetting agent will build up in the grooves of reels, and become a catalyst thus producing overdeveloped edges.
    This problem was prevalent when I began teaching at the college. I solved it by scrubbing the reels with a toothbrush then washing them in my home dishwasher w/o detergent.
    The old wetting agent was replaced with LFN and the problem never reappeared.

  9. #19

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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    I am not familiar with the Stearman tank, but I do know that the most commonly used wetting agent will build up in the grooves of reels, and become a catalyst thus producing overdeveloped edges.
    I've never used wetting agent in any of my tanks and, in the past, have experienced uneven development; especially along an edge. For me, the solution was arriving at an agitation technique that eliminated these issues.

  10. #20
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Advice On Uneven Development On Film Edges

    Riddle me this

    In a box, the waves bounce off the edges, which is double work/wash

    as compared to once midstream

    I do use a gas burst box

    but I dump the hangers down into the solution quickly

    and immediately run gas bubbles for 1 minute

    then 10 seconds per minute

    Prints and ULF negs are pushed quickly into oversize tray fluid, to make it ALL WET

    asap
    Tin Can

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