Kodak chemicals -- now what??

[patrickjames]

I've started putting Butane in the stock fix after I open it. Makes it last longer. From what I understand the sulfurization happens with exposure to oxygen, but don't quote me on that. Nothing worse than wasting a gallon of fix. I do the same with paper developers and they last a really long time that way, even partially used.

I think these things are more a problem today because we can't just run down to the local camera store anymore, so we buy in bulk to make sure we have what we need. That means it sits around longer. That is my case anyway.

[Kevin Crisp]

Since I had 3 of them go bad -- unopened -- after a 6/21 purchase I think it is a bad batch.

I noticed today I had a box of RF that was two years older than the ones that went bad. It's fine. I mixed it up and am using it. I'm stopping by Freestyle this week and I'll see what they say about it.

[Kevin Crisp]

The mfg conclusion is that they were cooked at some point. I picked them up at Freestyle, didn't leave them in the car, an stored them in the darkroom.

----------------------------
Hello Mr. Crisp,

After having received your images and continuing the investigation it was concluded that the product is not defective and even looking into the logs, we have not received other trade reactions, complaints, or inquiries about this lot of product.


With the age of the product (almost 2.5 years from manufacturing date) we would have received other complaints if it were related to the manufacturing. After reviewing and investigating this, it can be concluded that somewhere during its life, the product may have been subject to excessive temperature which "cooked" the fixer causing it to lead to sulfurization.

The product contains sulfites which is a common antioxidant. As the product ages the sulfites oxidize to protect the product but there is less and less sulfite remaining. Higher temperatures accelerate the oxidation and cause the remaining sulfites to be used up. Once the fixer itself oxidizes it breaks down into a sulfur precipitate.

Other chemicals which may in fact be older, but have not been subject to high temperatures may perform better - which may be what you described by your third bottle that was older but worked.

For future reference, time, and warm temperature will cause fixer to sulfurize. A good rule of thumb for optimal performance is to use the chemicals within 2 years of manufacturing date, and to not store it in an area with high temperatures.

We hope that this information is helpful to you.

Thank you.

-Sino Promise Group Support

[gypsydog]

These lyrics sum it up!

[Michael R]

The 2-year rule of thumb is good but unfortunately in this day and age that guarantees nothing where photographic chemicals are concerned, especially liquids. Distribution channels aren’t what they used to be, and then retailers often store things under adverse conditions (I’ve seen some ridiculously careless things).

It’s good that they at least responded, although that doesn’t really help you. Sorry this happened. It’s frustrating.

The mfg conclusion is that they were cooked at some point. I picked them up at Freestyle, didn't leave them in the car, an stored them in the darkroom.

----------------------------
Hello Mr. Crisp,

After having received your images and continuing the investigation it was concluded that the product is not defective and even looking into the logs, we have not received other trade reactions, complaints, or inquiries about this lot of product.


With the age of the product (almost 2.5 years from manufacturing date) we would have received other complaints if it were related to the manufacturing. After reviewing and investigating this, it can be concluded that somewhere during its life, the product may have been subject to excessive temperature which "cooked" the fixer causing it to lead to sulfurization.

The product contains sulfites which is a common antioxidant. As the product ages the sulfites oxidize to protect the product but there is less and less sulfite remaining. Higher temperatures accelerate the oxidation and cause the remaining sulfites to be used up. Once the fixer itself oxidizes it breaks down into a sulfur precipitate.

Other chemicals which may in fact be older, but have not been subject to high temperatures may perform better - which may be what you described by your third bottle that was older but worked.

For future reference, time, and warm temperature will cause fixer to sulfurize. A good rule of thumb for optimal performance is to use the chemicals within 2 years of manufacturing date, and to not store it in an area with high temperatures.

We hope that this information is helpful to you.

Thank you.

-Sino Promise Group Support