Another Agfa Ansco 8x10 Restoration

[Bob Wagner]

Decided to refinish the wood and brass on my Agfa Ansco 8x10. It is a Universal model dating from before WW2, based on some information quoted from Richard Knoppow on Phot.net. Bought the camera from a young man that inherited it from his grandfather who was evidently a school photographer back in the day. It has a 5x7 back and a roll film back, and the bed extension, missing the moveable tripod block. I cobbled together an 8x10 back and made the camera useable and love the huge ground glass experience, but the camera doesn't lock down well, and just doesn't work well. Both the front and back standards have some poorly repaired areas that are flimsy, the geared movements are stiff and so on.
Since I'm in a bit of a creative slump, thought now would be a good time to get it back to good condition.

Some observations that might be of interest to others contemplating a similar project:

Brass Hardware: A lot more than you might think. I'm hand cleaning the brass, even the individual screws with Brasso to a low sheen. For the tiny screws a soak in white vinegar with a little salt seems to make them easier to clean. For the screwdriver slots in the tops of screws a Dremel tool with a brass wire wheel at lowest speed while holding the screw with a pair of pliers works well. For the other parts, Brasso and a little rubbing, with some 0000 steel wool on the badly oxidized parts works fine, but it is slow work, kind of like grinding a ground glass. Listening to Hidden Light (lab and platinum printer in Flagstaff), Sean Tucker or Alex Kilbee youtubes are great for passing the time

Finish removal: methylene chloride used to be the main ingredient in paint and finish removers but is now banned so all the available removers use a substitute. I tried every type and brand available and found that they just leave a gummy mess. The finish on mine is lacquer, so I found just using lacquer thinner on steel wool or abrasive pad does a much better job. The obvious cautions regarding ventilation and protection apply. I personally prefer working with very good ventilation in a open garage to a respirator because I'm in Phoenix, with very high heat and very low humidity right now, vapors dissipate very well in this environment. Nasty work but I was in the painting business for a long time so am accustomed to working with chemicals. If you aren't, you might want to reconsider stripping finishes. Sanding will remove finishes, but the nooks and crannies make it almost impossible to get it all off, and you can end up with rounded corners and an uneven finish

Bellows: When I first bought it, I had to seal up all the corners but overall they are remarkably supple. Will decide on replacement or not when I'm closer to being finished. A new one will cost nearly as much as I paid for it, so hesitate to put the money into it

[LabRat]

I'm just finishing a restoration on a 1925ish (pre Agfa) Ansco Universal 8X10, not going through the entire process here, but some general comments...

Mine looked like it was in a barn for decades, but gave it a careful triage beforehand... I don't mind cameras with a little "character" earned over the years, but this one looked like the bottom of an ashtray, but intact and not warped... Was trying to decide how much time/effort/$$$ to put into this project, but looked at the ugly first... Examined the finish carefully and noticed the finish was mostly intact under the scuzz,, so skipped stripping, and and removed parts, but test polished using auto finish rubbing compound first... This uncovered the old nice finish under there and removed the scuffing... Some scratching on finish that turned whitish, but rubbed areas with a dark poly stain which darkened damage areas to blend... Did entire camera wood, and it evened it out well... Brass was corroded under lacquer a little, but lacquer came off without too much effort by rubbing with Brasso, cleaned metal, wiped with acetone, and applied tung oil as a varnish... (Still don't know how this will hold up over time, but sometimes used to coat metal)... Several coats were applied... Some metal was rough/scratched but evenly sanded with 400 grit emery paper in perfectly straight lines to line grain surface... Just kept at it until looked attractive...

Ordered new bellows as old ones were too stiff and dented, and had to undo "Homer Simpson" repairs done over the years, and camera coming out surprisingly cheerful looking!!! Mine was missing the tripod block also, but no big deal to make one, or a wood plank between the tripod screw holes with T nuts every inch or so...

Advice to anyone doing a restoration is triage carefully, don't get overly compulsive in the beginning, and "listen" to the camera and it's needs, then proceed without too many preconceptions as "little as possible, much as necessary" philosophy and let the "patient" tell you what it needs... It came this far in history...

Steve K

[Greg]

Another tip is to label the screws individually as to where they go. I once restored a vintage wooded view camera and the heads on all the screws looked to be the same. After removing all of them, I started to clean them and discovered that they were in fact of two different (but very close) lengths. In the end I had to painstakingly measure the depths of the screw holes to try to correctly replace the screws into their correct screw holes.
I also sprayed the brass parts with oven cleaner and let them sit out in the sun for about an hour. Wiping and then rinsing them in hot water removed most of the tarnish and whatever else. Oven cleaner seemed to actually work better than Brasso, and it was a lot less work.

[Axelwik]

I just acquired an Ansco 8x10 Universal, pre-WWII with a dark wood finish, and the biggest thing wrong with it is that the previous photographer brushed the whole front of the camera with flat black paint, I assume to reduce reflection while shooting a mirror-like object close up. Other than that the bellows is okay, but needs some repair. Does anyone know of a good way to remove the black paint without damaging the wood finish and brass/bronze underneath? I can chip some of it off with a fingernail.

It used to belong to New Mexico Magazine/Tourist Department photographer Wyatt Davis. Came complete with a case of 5 wood film holders and a 12-inch Goerz Dagor lens. A watchmaker/photographer friend is cleaning/repairing the shutter now.

[LabRat]

I just acquired an Ansco 8x10 Universal, pre-WWII with a dark wood finish, and the biggest thing wrong with it is that the previous photographer brushed the whole front of the camera with flat black paint, I assume to reduce reflection while shooting a mirror-like object close up. Other than that the bellows is okay, but needs some repair. Does anyone know of a good way to remove the black paint without damaging the wood finish and brass/bronze underneath? I can chip some of it off with a fingernail.

It used to belong to New Mexico Magazine/Tourist Department photographer Wyatt Davis. Came complete with a case of 5 wood film holders and a 12-inch Goerz Dagor lens. A watchmaker/photographer friend is cleaning/repairing the shutter now.

Hi, as I mentioned above, you can try the rubbing compound on a inconspicuous area... Put a little dab on a q-tip and gently rub in a spot to see if it starts lifting the paint up... Don't use sand or emery paper as that will cut into the lacquer finish, especially near the edges... And don't make paint dust with it, as it's probably lead paint you don't want to breathe in...

Try it, and check back in... Good luck!!!

Steve K

[Greg]

I've had great luck using Dumond brand Peel Away 1 Paint Remover on a wooden Burke & James Commercial view camera. Water-Based, Zero VOC, and pretty much odorless. The wood under the gray paint was amazingly furniture grade in every way. Ended up finishing it up with just a clear protective coating. Removing the paint was a bit messy so did it on top a lot of layers newspapers in my darkroom sink so as to protect the deck paint that I coated my plywood sink with.

[Bob Wagner]

Interesting comments, thanks for the insights.
Steve - great advice on careful triage, going easy and not being too aggressive. 'First do no harm.' In my case, with the structural issues, I decided to get down to bare wood so I could properly repair it. Turns out there is another repaired area I discovered that will require some wood replacement. I also see where mine was refinished to some degree a couple of different times, so it is a mess finish wise.
M.A. - Great story on your Ansco. I would be tempted to try paint stripper applied and then removed in just a few seconds or minutes, I have seen an acrylic finish wrinkle and 'pop' off almost immediately without lifting the finish underneath, but it is a tricky and risky business, obviously to be tried on an inconspicuous area first. The good thing about clear lacquer finish is that it is permanently resoluble, meaning an additional topcoat will redissolve and meld into the existing finish. Just have to make sure any furniture polish or wax has been removed. BTW I was in Albq from 91 to 01, beautiful place to live, the Sandias at sunset are a thing to behold.
Greg, I used Peel Away years ago in an industrial setting but was under the impression it could chemically burn the wood. That was a long time ago, perhaps they have added different formulations - I'll give it a try on my next project - thanks for the tip

[Peter De Smidt]

I didn't know about Peel Away. Thanks, Greg! I've got an Agfa 8x10 that's undergoing restoration, as well.

[Axelwik]

Thanks for the tips all. I'll report back once it's done.