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Thread: Velvia 50 replacement

  1. #11
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Simulation is not the same thing at all. The high contrast of Velvia and its specific dye formulation allows capture of certain hue subtleties which no other film can achieve. But the tradeoff is the fact that only works within a relatively narrow exposure range, and at the expense of neutrality in certain other spectral categories. The other problem is that much of its is lost in translation anyway, whether that involves scanning or some printing medium unequal to the task, almost any conventional print medium, in fact. It's kinda like comparing real ice cream to the same alleged flavor of imitation ice milk : it sorta works, and it sorta doesn't.

    I did a very successful large print a few weeks ago that began with an 8x10 Velvia original, with some very subtle distinctions of early season green and other hues in it. But I had to jump through some awfully tricky hoops in order to correctly translate all that into a matching optical enlargement. It would have been well nigh impossible to resolve those vital tricky hue distinctions in something like an inkjet print. And it also meant the reproducible range of the hues I needed to precisely bag had to lie inside a third stop either at the top or at the bottom, at the time of exposure. No room for exposure error whatsoever; but the natural lighting itself was just right, at least for a few lucky seconds.

    Current Ektachrome is not quite as fussy, and better balanced overall. Much better balanced than Provia. But I've made excellent prints with em all, going clear back to Ektachrome 64, Kodachrome 25, and pre-E6 Afgachrome 50. I love every one of these films, and numerous other chrome options too, but for different reasons. Don't try to beat any of them into submission. Instead, dance with em, and let them lead at their own pace. Each has their own specific personality and color signature.
    Why match to the original colors of the Velvia 50 chrome? As long as they seem right for our eyes is what counts. The color palette for Velvia was developed by some Japanese engineer who's probably dead. His artistic expression doesn't have to be ours.

  2. #12

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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Why match to the original colors of the Velvia 50 chrome?
    LOL!

    I thought you were looking for a substitute of Velvia but apparently you're just looking for OK colors. Well, you're in luck - just avoid anything Lomo, watch out with ECN-2 film and otherwise shoot anything that produces color because it's perfectly fine!

  3. #13
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    LOL!

    I thought you were looking for a substitute of Velvia but apparently you're just looking for OK colors. Well, you're in luck - just avoid anything Lomo, watch out with ECN-2 film and otherwise shoot anything that produces color because it's perfectly fine!
    The point I was making is that I don't try to match the Chrome with the edits on the screen. I just scan the picture, set black and white points, do a few minor adjustments and if the colors look good I stop right there. I just don't compare and match colors with the original chrome. Who cares?

  4. #14
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    I you don't even care about trying to replicate the specific color palette of Vevia, Alan, then why would a switch to Ektachrome bother you?

  5. #15
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    I you don't even care about trying to replicate the specific color palette of Vevia, Alan, then why would a switch to Ektachrome bother you?
    I suppose I wasn't clear. The ordinary and unheroic edits of the scanned image bring back Velvia colors in general. The same with Ektachrome and Provia. They also adjust to their designed colors. It's just that I don't bother to check if the final colors look like the original slides and then make final adjustments to match them exactly. The results of normal edits definitely result in very different palettes among the different chromes. I won't artificially push them beyond that or try to change them to another design. I can't imagine trying to change Ektachrome into Velvia.

  6. #16

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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    You might try the various scene optimization settings in your scanning software, or one of the many 'filters' available for Photoshop etc. There's bound to be one that gives you colors that please you from, let's say, Ektachrome or Provia scans.

    Since you're not trying to replicate Velvia colors per se, it doesn't matter all that much what you end up with exactly as long as you like it. I'd just take that approach and not bother too much about the Velvia name. It seems like that is only complicating for you what is mostly a search for your own unique flavor.

  7. #17

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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Provia or E100 but more realistically C-41 because large format E-6 film and processing is quickly vanishing in parts of the world not called USA/UK/Canada.

  8. #18

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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    You might try the various scene optimization settings in your scanning software, or one of the many 'filters' available for Photoshop etc. There's bound to be one that gives you colors that please you from, let's say, Ektachrome or Provia scans.

    Since you're not trying to replicate Velvia colors per se, it doesn't matter all that much what you end up with exactly as long as you like it. I'd just take that approach and not bother too much about the Velvia name. It seems like that is only complicating for you what is mostly a search for your own unique flavor.
    ... and take good notes along the way so you can replicate whatever gives you pleasing results!

  9. #19
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by koraks View Post
    You might try the various scene optimization settings in your scanning software, or one of the many 'filters' available for Photoshop etc. There's bound to be one that gives you colors that please you from, let's say, Ektachrome or Provia scans.

    Since you're not trying to replicate Velvia colors per se, it doesn't matter all that much what you end up with exactly as long as you like it. I'd just take that approach and not bother too much about the Velvia name. It seems like that is only complicating for you what is mostly a search for your own unique flavor.
    Thanks for the suggestion. I wonder though if being so much removed from the film will just push me back to using digital exclusively? I want there to be some connection to the film I'm using. On the other hand, I have converted color film to BW digital photos. So maybe I'm doing that already.

  10. #20

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    Re: Velvia 50 replacement

    The more I take pictures the less important it becomes to me what film I expose (including E6 and C41). And no, I am not looking forward to moving away from using film.

    I love Velvia 50 in 120 but find it being my least preferable option in 4x5 (slow speed and bad reciprocity profile).

    Given that it is gone in 4x5, the options in E-6 are Provia 100F and E100.

    My preference is Provia 100F
    Reasons:
    - I see no issues with how it renders colors and, if needed, can be tweaked in post quite a bit one way or another. No, it is not Velvia 50 but why should my images look like taken on a particular film stock anyway? Should they?
    - Till lately it used to be the least expensive E-6 film in 4x5 and still is in 120. Big deal on my list
    - No reciprocity failure for exposure times up to 2 minutes
    - I used it a lot in the past ( a 50/50 split between it and Velvia 100) and know what to expect

    I have tried E100 in 120 only and I like the results.
    Are they any shockingly different from Velvia or Provia? Are they any "better" for landscape than Velvia or Provia ? - No, not to me.
    Will I be happy to use it if I had no other option? - Absolutely.

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