510 Pyro - First Impressions

[tundra]

Ok, but arguably pyrocatechol is likewise easily oxidized, dilutions beyond 1:1:100 are likewise regarded with suspicion by some...and at the same time it works for OP and many others. Apparently tundra wanted to do a comparison within process parameters that are normal for him.
Who's to stop you or me to run other tests? (Well, I did, you know the story.)

The 1.5:1:200 dilution was Sandy King's recommendation as a starting point for low agitation development. Steve Sherman has similarly dilute concoctions in his workflow.

There is a balancing act here. When doing (Semi)Stand or EMA, you want highly dilute developer in order to exhaust highlight development quickly to give those lovely edge transitions and apparent overall acuity. But if it is too dilute, you won't get full shadow development because the developer isn't there in sufficient amounts no matter how long the film sits in it. I have have found that 1.5:1 to 200 or 250 works well, the latter being indicated for really big SBR scenes.

Note that "normal" Pyrocat-HD at 1:1:100 produces a 1% Part A in solution (the business end of the developer). But even at 1.5:1:200, there is still 0.75% Part A in solution which isn't that great a difference and - in my extensive testing - is more than enough.

[tundra]

I finally got to print some of the 510 Pyro negatives. I am retracting the observation that they are less sharp/lower acuity than Pyrocat-HD. Actual prints show excellent sharpness as expected from a 4x5 negative.

[ajsikel]

the 510 pyro has been discussed indepthly since its creation zilion years ago by Jay de Fehr, owner of the formula and creator, and its users likewise.
Many pages has been written , many stories unfolded.
Why not ask him, for his practical advice backed by true facts and serious practice?

[tundra]

the 510 pyro has been discussed indepthly since its creation zilion years ago by Jay de Fehr, owner of the formula and creator, and its users likewise.
Many pages has been written , many stories unfolded.
Why not ask him, for his practical advice backed by true facts and serious practice?

Because nothing matters but my own work, done my way, with my workflow. Until I have a process dialed in, there is no way to know how the material works in context.

[Michael R]

When it comes to these home-made concoctions it is really up to the individual user to try things for themselves and draw their own subjective conclusions. These user experiences may (or may not) be of value to other potential users. There is almost nothing scientific and/or objective out there which can be considered reliable. Even in a best case scenario the equipment, knowledge and time required for objective evaluations and comparisons of characteristics such as granularity, acutance etc. is beyond what a hobby formulator can undertake. Even basic sensitometry is lacking, and is somewhat more difficult to both test and interpret for staining developers in the context of tone reproduction.

the 510 pyro has been discussed indepthly since its creation zilion years ago by Jay de Fehr, owner of the formula and creator, and its users likewise.
Many pages has been written , many stories unfolded.
Why not ask him, for his practical advice backed by true facts and serious practice?

[tundra]

When it comes to these home-made concoctions it is really up to the individual user to try things for themselves and draw their own subjective conclusions. These user experiences may (or may not) be of value to other potential users. There is almost nothing scientific and/or objective out there which can be considered reliable. Even in a best case scenario the equipment, knowledge and time required for objective evaluations and comparisons of characteristics such as granularity, acutance etc. is beyond what a hobby formulator can undertake. Even basic sensitometry is lacking, and is somewhat more difficult to both test and interpret for staining developers in the context of tone reproduction.

Well, it can't be done to lab precision levels, but comparing concoction A against concoction B by processing negatives shot at the same time/place comes close enough for practical purposes. It's true that real sensiometry and detailed acutance analysis is outside the ability of most individual photographers. That's why I make test prints for comparison - the print (or, arguably, the scan) are really all that matter.

It took me the better part of 6+ months to dial in Pyrocat-HD as a low agitation developer. I wouldn't expect to have to do anything less with 510. But I wanted to at least take a brief look at it to see if there was anything new or compelling there. So far, I've seen nothing, really. But I'll occasionally revisit it as time permits.

[Michael R]

I agree. That was basically my point. Particularly in the case of a developer such as 510 pyro, there is little or nothing to go on, so it is up to the individual user to figure things out and come to a subjective conclusion, in which case experimentation along with best efforts at some semblance of controlled comparisons - including prints - is a reasonable approach.

In other words, I disagree with the points made in post #13. The fact many people have written about this developer is pretty much irrelevant. It doesn’t make your own testing unnecessary, and it doesn’t diminish the value in sharing your results.

Well, it can't be done to lab precision levels, but comparing concoction A against concoction B by processing negatives shot at the same time/place comes close enough for practical purposes. It's true that real sensiometry and detailed acutance analysis is outside the ability of most individual photographers. That's why I make test prints for comparison - the print (or, arguably, the scan) are really all that matter.

It took me the better part of 6+ months to dial in Pyrocat-HD as a low agitation developer. I wouldn't expect to have to do anything less with 510. But I wanted to at least take a brief look at it to see if there was anything new or compelling there. So far, I've seen nothing, really. But I'll occasionally revisit it as time permits.

[j.e.simmons]

Jay often said he would release his developers almost like beta version software - for the photo community to comment on and improve. Looks like we’re doing just that.

[jag09]

Will be referencing this thread in the coming weeks as I have some 510 pyro on the way. Looking to try it out as a step away from HC110

[tundra]

Will be referencing this thread in the coming weeks as I have some 510 pyro on the way. Looking to try it out as a step away from HC110

Just remember that Pyro is a toxic substance so use appropriate lab technique - a protective apron or labcoat, nitrile gloves, eye protection, good ventilation, an appropriate mask, etc. Do this while in use and while cleaning up.