Which paper is closest to graded Brilliant (Guillemot version).

[Robert Brazile]

Mark's then assistant was/is Nick Brandreth; while Mark has retired, Nick is still at GEH (now GEM) but I don't think they've got in-person workshops going again yet. Mark does private workshops for those interested, and I believe Nick does as well, in addition to doing some virtual workshops via video conference.

Bob, I wouldn't be surprised if Mark remembers your conversation, he's pretty good that way. He's on his way back from Sicily right now, having taught a collodion dry plate workshop there. I believe he and his wife France Scully Osterman are thinking about the possibility of an emulsion-making + shooting workshop for later in the year. While that's focused on making dry plates, the technique is the same as for paper -- paper is just a bit simpler (no washing required, unlike for glass).

Robert Brazile

(took two emulsion-making workshops at GEH and has very much enjoyed making them ever since...)

[bob carnie]

Mark's then assistant was/is Nick Brandreth; while Mark has retired, Nick is still at GEH (now GEM) but I don't think they've got in-person workshops going again yet. Mark does private workshops for those interested, and I believe Nick does as well, in addition to doing some virtual workshops via video conference.

Bob, I wouldn't be surprised if Mark remembers your conversation, he's pretty good that way. He's on his way back from Sicily right now, having taught a collodion dry plate workshop there. I believe he and his wife France Scully Osterman are thinking about the possibility of an emulsion-making + shooting workshop for later in the year. While that's focused on making dry plates, the technique is the same as for paper -- paper is just a bit simpler (no washing required, unlike for glass).

Robert Brazile

(took two emulsion-making workshops at GEH and has very much enjoyed making them ever since...)

When I visited Mark and Ron Morey I do remember two assistants, one was Nick, but if my memory serves me correct the other young dude was a young guy from APUG or HERE who really took an interest in the process side of things
and eventually ended up for some time at GEM

I am glad you are making emulsions , If I had another lifetime I would consider silver gelatin emulsion making, I have my plate full with Pd and Gums, I do a lot of Silver, actually more now than ever but
I am making digital negs and doing contact prints. Right now the 50's, 60's and early 70's seem to be all I am printing.

[interneg]

...wish we could get someone with truly deep pockets on board to re-create/reintroduce some "legacy" materials: Papers like the old Brilliant, Seagull, Portriga Rapid, Forte...Thing is, aside from the fact that there would be some legal restrictions on compounds (like cadmium)

Firstly, it often wasn't Cd (despite various salesmen's best efforts) - that went sometime in the 1970s in many products - but often a combination of hardener changes, moves to washed emulsions (so they could go on RC papers), emulsion structure changes (to try & resolve batch-to-batch variability - and make variable contrast papers deliver a full range of contrasts), along with addenda alterations to improve VC behaviour - and several well known warmtone papers seem to have historically used lead salts to cause a particular crystal habit - and above all else, a shrinking B&W sector of the market for many decades - that caused many products to be either withdrawn or have the minimum spent to keep them on the market. Today, it is possible to use modern emulsion technology to remake many classic emulsions safely - but not profitably, unless you are OK with paying 50-100% over something like MGWT.

films like Super XX, Panatomic-X

Their replacements are better. 40+ years on people need to learn how to use T-Max films, rather than poisoning themselves with cookbooks. Despite the indignant huffing and puffing, Super-XX was replaced by better products - it was turned into a cult material because for several decades it was Kodak's only fully general purpose sheet film product - most of their competitors didn't make as many specialist products for specific market segments, thus mainly made general purpose films.

Plus-X, the Agfapans

The last (& best) version of 125PX (which finally unified 135 PX and 120 VP (same emulsion set) in one product line) might return - it would be relatively easy for Kodak to tell the emulsion computer to make it.

APX 100 returned as Adox Silvermax & seems to be having a secondary life as the underpinnings of CHS 100II (and possibly some of Orwo/ Inoviscoat's materials too) - APX 400 got adjusted at the end of the 2000's to something more Tri-X-ish, then seems to have evolved off into Bergger's 400 product & Orwo N75.

[Mark Sampson]

If you want to bring back a long-gone paper, I'd talk to Paula Chamlee. She and her late husband, Michael A. Smith, devoted a great deal of effort (and no doubt a small fortune) to make their Azo-replacement paper, Lodima. Which seems to be no longer available... I suspect that the market wasn't big enough to continue manufacturing it. And admittedly, I have no data, but I doubt that their heroic effort was profitable. Or perhaps, not profitable enough, considering the work involved.
Anyone want to make a small fortune bringing back Brilliant? Step up with your large fortune, then.

[peter schrager]

If you want to bring back a long-gone paper, I'd talk to Paula Chamlee. She and her late husband, Michael A. Smith, devoted a great deal of effort (and no doubt a small fortune) to make their Azo-replacement paper, Lodima. Which seems to be no longer available... I suspect that the market wasn't big enough to continue manufacturing it. And admittedly, I have no data, but I doubt that their heroic effort was profitable. Or perhaps, not profitable enough, considering the work involved.
Anyone want to make a small fortune bringing back Brilliant? Step up with your large fortune, then.

Actually adox lupex is available right now and you can buy it from Paula tomorrow
It'd grade 3 but it's azo for sure

[interneg]

adox lupex is available right now... grade 3 but it's azo for sure

It tends to get forgotten that modern multigrade papers seem to owe more to high chloride emulsions like Azo/ Lupex/ Lodima etc than to more 'traditional' enlarging emulsions because of the useful crystal characteristics that AgCl can deliver.

The recipe for Azo type emulsions in G2/3/4 is also in Ron Mowrey's emulsions book.

[otto.f]

Isn’t Bergger the new Guilleminot?

[Drew Wiley]

Bergger is marketing a couple nice VC papers with a bit more dive off the steep end, curve-wise, than Harman's regular papers. Their Ilford MGWT probably has equal or even more DMax after toning, but not as steep a dropoff into the shadows as what they make for the Bergger brand label. But Brilliant Bromide was more like jumping out of a plane in that respect, and with a very distinctive image tone, plus the strongest DMax I have ever seen in any graded paper. I imagine it would be prohibitively expensive to make today.

So NO; my personal opinion is that NOTHING is the modern Guillemont, or Seagull G either. But we have plenty of other excellent papers to chose from. So I can't complain.

[interneg]

Isn’t Bergger the new Guilleminot?

More or less - it was initially founded by Guilleminot's chief chemist & run by him for a number of years. What has never been totally clear is the extent to which Bergger's paper offerings were simply alterations of extant Forte formulae or derivative of Guilleminot's formulae books - and after the move to Harman Technology for the paper products, the materials do differ from Harman's own Ilford products, but that is relatively straightforward to achieve within a sophisticated emulsion design system. The films Bergger offered seem to have largely been Fortepan, then latterly Orwo/ Innoviscoat derived.

[Michael R]

I’m kind of surprised by this, Drew. I don’t think we have much to choose from. I’m not crazy about MG Classic and that’s basically my only option. WT is ok I guess but I prefer neutral papers. I don’t particularly care for the surface sheen of the cooltone paper, and what else is there? I liked Fotoimpex’s MCC-110 a lot but that’s dead. It seems to me the RC selection is a little better.

My take is that we have wonderful films at our disposal (although some of them are becoming crazy expensive), but not much paper, although I suppose I should be thankful there are still silver papers at all.

Maybe I’m wrong.

Bergger is marketing a couple nice VC papers with a bit more dive off the steep end, curve-wise, than Harman's regular papers. Their Ilford MGWT probably has equal or even more DMax after toning, but not as steep a dropoff into the shadows as what they make for the Bergger brand label. But Brilliant Bromide was more like jumping out of a plane in that respect, and with a very distinctive image tone, plus the strongest DMax I have ever seen in any graded paper. I imagine it would be prohibitively expensive to make today.

So NO; my personal opinion is that NOTHING is the modern Guillemont, or Seagull G either. But we have plenty of other excellent papers to chose from. So I can't complain.