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Thread: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

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    http://www.spiritsofsilver.com tgtaylor's Avatar
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    4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    I'm thinking of using my 4x4 filters on a 360mm Schneider Symmar-S. The convex glass of the lens measures ~ 86mm which a 4.4 filter placed on top completely covers with room to spare. The lens is threaded for 120mm filters and my Cokin ZPro filter holder has 95mm threads. Do you think that a 120 to 95mm step-down ring would work?

    Curiously there are a second set of threads close to the lens surface that is about 96mm in diameter and inset about 12.7mm from the outer threads. I had thought that this was for some kind of "center filter" but the concavity of the lens intrudes. The 95mm Cokin ring threads and the opening of the filters barrel appears to be an exact fit with it. Do you think using a holder120mm to 95mm step-down ring will work and not vignette?

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    Thaomas

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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    I would think that it depends on what film format you are using and how much movement you expect.

    Can you be more specific?

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    http://www.spiritsofsilver.com tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    8x10

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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    That lens should have so much IC that whatever you cutoff will be irrelevant unless you've used crazy amounts of rise or something.

    I've used 4" filters on lenses with big front elements with just a couple of rubber bands holding it flush to the front, with no issues, which will eliminate the holder issue.
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    http://www.spiritsofsilver.com tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    Thanks for the reply Brian.

    The front element of the lens measures ~ 86mm across which gives me ~ 4.5mm of space on each side from where the holder lies but at an elevation of ~28mm above the glass. My question is whether or not vignetting will occur? I can remove 1, possible 2 of the 3 filter slots and trim the mounting screws, but I rather not do that as I use that holder with other lenses and sometimes with 2 glass filters.

    Thomas

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    http://www.spiritsofsilver.com tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    With a front filter thread of 120mm I wonder who bought these lenses and for what reasons and, for that matter, why did Schneider mfg a lens with such specs?

    Thomas

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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    360mm modern plasmat lenses like this were the normal lens for 8x10, very common back in the commercial AD sheet film days.
    Whopper lenses like this was a non-issue as most of that work was done in studio with truly powerful studio strobes (think f45 or more with camera-lens to subject working distance and strobe power gobbling with narry-a-burp light modifiers) and a large variety of light modifiers.

    Serious commercial Ad photographers back in them days had a variety of filter systems like the Sinar 125mm, adjustable curtain shade, controlled masking in front of the lens and LOTs more. What is done in Foto-Shop today was done "in-camera" (very real reasons why Sinar P was highly preferred) with lighting and sheer skill and talent. This kind of image making can and does place extreme demands on camera system, lighting, abilities of the image maker and all related. "Pulll-aroids" were one means of gauging how the image might be. Today there is "live-view" which subs for "Pull-aroids"..

    Had a chat with a neighbor recently, she was a commercial AD photography studio rep from back in the day. We share memories and reminisced about how Image making once was. We both lived and understood the demands of what image making was back then and what it has become today

    Bernice

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    With a front filter thread of 120mm I wonder who bought these lenses and for what reasons and, for that matter, why did Schneider mfg a lens with such specs?

    Thomas

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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    This is why the Nikkor-W (95mm), Fujinon-W (86mm) 355mm f9 G-Claron (77mm) Apo-Ronar f9 (58mm) and Fujinon-A f9 (58mm) are popular over the Sironar-N (105mm) Sironar-S (112mm) and Apo-symmar (112mm).
    The 14" Commercial Ektar uses 72mm, Apo-Artar 47 or 52mm, the Commercial Congo is 67mm,

    Resources:
    http://web.archive.org/web/201204192...o/index_e.html

    https://static.bhphotovideo.com/Fram...rmatLenses.pdf

    http://www.prograf.ru/rodenstock/largeformat_en.html



    Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    With a front filter thread of 120mm I wonder who bought these lenses and for what reasons and, for that matter, why did Schneider mfg a lens with such specs?

    Thomas
    I bought this lens around 1981 because I had been using Schneider lenses on my 4x5 for several years and, honestly, was not aware of any other 360mm plasmats, though the Nikkor 360 and probably the Fuji 360 were around. I used this lens exclusively for 10 years for landscape and general outdoor scene photography. I was a strong young buck at the time so the weight of my 8x10 outfit didn't phase me. I still own this lens, but nowadays my choice in the 360 range is the Fuji A 360mm.

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    Re: 4x4 filter on 360mm Symmar-S?

    Filter size should never be the deciding factor to lens choice, think tail wagging the dogggie.

    Or why the square filter system or large threaded filter system or series iV filters with adapters as needed. The fixed threaded in filter ideology often comes from using 35mm, 120 roll medium format or digital portable cameras where a threaded in filters is a good choice. Not the same for view camera stuff as the needs and filter usage is not the same. Habits previously ingrained can be difficult to un-learn.

    Back in the days when these 360mm Plasmants were neu, they were what was available and what the market wanted.

    ~f5.6 full aperture results in a bright ground glass image to ease focusing.

    ~BIG image circle, typically 491mm diameter at f22, easily covers 8x10.
    https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02157/02157.pdf

    ~Optical performance optimized at f22. Meets the market demands for majority of the image in perceived focus via using small lens apertures plus camera movements as needed.

    ~High contrast due to modern multi-coating (lens coatings continued to evolve until the end of view camera lens production). Another market requirement due to commercial AD images made during that era. Higher contrast lens can be perceived as being "sharper" when it is actually not sharper.

    ~These BIG plasmas fell out of favor today due to the popularity of light weight field folders and how view camera images have gone from commercial AD sheet film images made in a studio (reference standard driven color transparencies, lesser was NOT tolerated) to folks hiking and camping or taking a walk with their light weight field view camera outfit. Consider for a moment, these majority of the image in focus images often require using smaller lens apertures ala f22 and smaller. Given this reality, the smaller full aperture lens has a very real advantage over the whopper f5.6 full aperture lens.. and the ground glass image brightness in bright sun is often more than good enough.

    All that said, modern plasmas and vintage lens designs such as the Tessar and others have their place in LF image making ... and these lens types are NOT directly interchangeable due to their image personalities. Depending on what the image goals are, lens type is chosen, followed by a camera that properly supports the needs of a specific lens with other system aspects to follow such as tripod, film type and all related to the finished print.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Oslolens View Post
    This is why the Nikkor-W (95mm), Fujinon-W (86mm) 355mm f9 G-Claron (77mm) Apo-Ronar f9 (58mm) and Fujinon-A f9 (58mm) are popular over the Sironar-N (105mm) Sironar-S (112mm) and Apo-symmar (112mm).
    The 14" Commercial Ektar uses 72mm, Apo-Artar 47 or 52mm, the Commercial Congo is 67mm,

    Resources:
    http://web.archive.org/web/201204192...o/index_e.html

    https://static.bhphotovideo.com/Fram...rmatLenses.pdf

    http://www.prograf.ru/rodenstock/largeformat_en.html



    Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

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