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Thread: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

  1. #11

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    Re: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

    Several things, but mostly Man Ray’s status as a major figure in 20th century art. I’m not sure Weston, Adams etc. will ever (?) be broadly thought of in that way because they were just photographers (on top of that, their influence never extended beyond photography).

    Quote Originally Posted by pdmoylan View Post
    Compare this to the current Christie’s auction of AA and both Weston’s original prints. It ends on the 24th and expected selling ranges are a pittance compared to this.

    Why the drastic disparity?

  2. #12

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    Re: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

    So is the market saying that:

    A. photography has greater value when the photographer is a well known painter/sculptor? , or
    B. Photographs that express an idea are much more valuable than “straight-forward” images? Or
    C. celebrity is much more important to an image’s markets value than anything else? Or
    D. Photography has little intrinsic value unless associated with art (painting/sculpture).


    On the other hand , I feel confident that AA is far better known to the public than Man Ray.
    If you ask a Texan or Floridian they may consider Western liberal states as surrealistic.

    D above is perhaps further supported by examples of photographs by current artists, Kiefer and Richter, whose images go for much more than expected sale of AA an the Weston’s.

  3. #13
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

    Wait 1000 years, then we quible

    Just reread Frank Herbert's 'The Godmakers' Audio book

    Saving my eyes for eternity
    Tin Can

  4. #14
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

    It's no secret that massive amounts of oligarch and dictator money via family members and cronies have gotten laundered in big East Coast art auctions and specialty fairs over the past decade or so. They're in a hurry and willing to overpay. Unlike real estate, Paintings, photos, and jewels are quite portable and concealable. Even the Nazis and Mafia knew that. Doesn't mean that's what went on this instance; but it does help explain the seeming recklessness of very high spending. Those types know how to extort more and more money anyway.

    Long term trends are something entirely different. There were huge amounts of money spent on neoclassical and pre-Raphaelite paintings in the mid 19th C which have never regained the same value. Auctions can do odd things anyway. I wouldn't read too much into it. And if certain images are out there in significant overall volumes, one or two very high sales will tempt a lot of people to sell off those same images from their own collections, and the price can drastically drop for awhile. Back and forth it goes.

    Music, art, photography, makes little difference. Most of today's superstars will be totally forgotten within a generation or two, just like those of former generations. Taste is a very fickle thing. And having a lot more money to spend doesn't necessarily equate to having more taste either; often the opposite, it seems.
    Last edited by Drew Wiley; 16-May-2022 at 16:46.

  5. #15

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    Re: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

    Hey Drew, did you see the Warhol (Blue Marilyn) sale? Mind boggling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    It's no secret that massive amounts of oligarch and dictator money via family members and cronies have gotten laundered in big East Coast art auctions and specialty fairs over the past decade or so. They're in a hurry and willing to overpay. Unlike real estate, Paintings, photos, and jewels are quite portable and concealable. Even the Nazis and Mafia knew that. Doesn't mean that's what went on this instance; but it does help explain the seeming recklessness of very high spending. Those types know how to extort more and more money anyway.

    Long term trends are something entirely different. There were huge amounts of money spent on neoclassical and pre-Raphaelite paintings in the mid 19th C which have never regained the same value. Auctions can do odd things anyway. I wouldn't read too much into it. And if certain images are out there in significant overall volumes, one or two very high sales will tempt a lot of people to sell off those same images from their own collections, and the price can drastically drop for awhile. Back and forth it goes.

    Music, art, photography, makes little difference. Most of today's superstars will be totally forgotten within a generation or two, just like those of former generations. Taste is a very fickle thing. And having a lot more money to spend doesn't necessarily equate to having more taste either; often the opposite, it seems.

  6. #16
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    Re: Man Ray: Kiki de Montparnasse

    Quote Originally Posted by pdmoylan View Post
    Compare this to the current Christie’s auction of AA and both Weston’s original prints. It ends on the 24th and expected selling ranges are a pittance compared to this.

    Why the drastic disparity?
    sorry to say it like this/ sound condescending /disparaging but the AA and Weston prints are "just photographs"... they're nice photographs but it's not quite the same...
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Hey Drew, did you see the Warhol (Blue Marilyn) sale? Mind boggling.

    why is it mind boggling ? it's a Warhol LOL ... worth every penny...

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