Dallmeyer archive “R” interpretation in the serial number lists

[mhayashi]

I always enjoy and look up Dallmeyer serial numbers in Dallmeyer Archive.

Yesterday I was looking up a serial number of 3C and noticed the same serial number appeared twice in the same page, for example 27313 here.

http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...ettings/3C.pdf

The second show in the list is noted “R” above the serial number.
I first guessed the serial number sample was “Rebuilt from” or “Replaced for” the serial sample above the next row.

But chronologically it doesn’t make sence.

The second guess I thought up is “Resale as used to” or “Restock” in the same row.
The third guess is “Repaired for”.
The fourth guess is “Rent to”.

It seems that “R” appears quite a few times.
“R” rows tend to be listed close to the first production date.

They also tend to have the received date to Dallmeyer factory close to or same as the shipping date to a final customer or an agent.

The receivers of the second show of the serial number tagged “R” tend to be different from the ones of the first production.

I have to look through other “R” samples to narrow in the tendencies in other original lists remained.

Another hint is for example here in the 2B lists.
In p58, there are three consecutive rows with “R” above

24889
26154
26155

All came in May 21st, then all were resold? to the same person or agent named Spencer, a different buyer from the original one, but these three samples were all bought by the same person/agent called Mouekhoden? at different times.

p55, p58
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/B/2B.pdf

p60
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/B/2B.pdf

Other hints are the same serial numbers appear 3 times, the first appearance always doesn’t have “R”, the second and thirs shows have “R”.
These examples may support the forth guess “Rent to”.

24083
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/B/2B.pdf

22532
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/A/2A.pdf

23003
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/D/5D.pdf

But what happened “R” serial number samples at the end?
May be the final borrowed user bought it?

Another find is 22123 double lined noted “Repair ready?”, which may eliminates “R”’s possibility of “Repaired for”.
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/A/3A.pdf

This is a kind of the detective work and joyful…

What do you think about the interpretation of “R”?

Another interesting find in the past was 4A was converted to 4B, cutting the barrel length, replacing some parts as in 25426.

http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/B/4B.pdf
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...tings/A/4A.pdf

[Euphus]

Interesting take on the 'R' interpretation. All of it makes sense. Have you contacted the Brett Archive to get their take on it?

[mhayashi]

No, I wonder if there is anyone who actually answers my questions seriously unless s/he is interested in photography like a curator of a photography museum….

Just for two cents, I summarized the rarity of selected Dallmeyer petzvals….
DallmeyerArchive.pdf

[Steven Tribe]

My guess would be Returned, but I’ll look through the items you discovered to see if there could be another answer “in plain sight”!

It is miracle that the records ended at an accessible site. There is no expertise there, though.

[mhayashi]

Thanks for chiming in Steven…. Looking forward to hearing your opinion.
Meanwhile I have got this far for Voigtlander petzval transitions….
I update pdfs when I find new info regularly with the date on the filename.
I sent an email with my findings to Corrado D’Agostini and he will answer my questions during his summer vacation as he tells me it takes very long time for research….
It wasn’t clear for me about his descriptions about Voigtlander petzval
transitions in his 19th centry German lens book.
Very interesting to learn….

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1645764

[pgk]

It is miracle that the records ended at an accessible site. There is no expertise there, though.

I have been trying to kook up information on lens 20089 which has been stated as being a 6" Portrait lens but keep getting directed to blank pages. Is this normal or am I missing something?

[mhayashi]

Many links are unfortunately dead.
You can still approximate the production year and month by looking up the modern index link.
Then check other lens serial ranges of the start and end date that are close to yours.
That narrows in your sample production year and month.
The assumption is the serial numbering is ordinal and chronological.
Is your petzval 1B for ef 6” or 2B for bf 6”?

http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...list%205-4.pdf
http://thedallmeyerarchive.com/Recor...list%205-2.pdf

[pgk]

Looks like ~1872 but the lens I'm trying to find information on is this one: https://collection.maas.museum/object/231103 as I simply want to know its specification! (I've emailed the museum too). I suspect that the 6" actually refers to the diameter.

[mhayashi]

Well, you are right.
Check the whs picture and the scale.
The whs diameter is approximately 15cm, roughly 6”.
This implies 6A.

https://collection.maas.museum/objec...3#&gid=1&pid=2

For astrographic photography, scientists used fast long petzvals for taking pics.

The link you posted says:

Portrait lens and accessories, 6 inch, brass / glass / wood / leather, J H Dallmeyer, London, England, 1880-1890, used at Sydney Observatory, New South Wales,

But 20086 wasn’t made in that period, which is contradictory and the curator mistook the lens production date determination, or the engraving was not 20086, maybe 30086??

Unfortunately 6A link is dead again, but you can say the lens was made in between 1
2/8/1867 and 5/2/1875 for No.13171-24210, and the closest number is

Rectilinear Settings (Wide Angle)
No.1
20136
14/6/1872

That gives you a ballpark.

[pgk]

Great. Thanks. I think that the Dallmeyer was an older lens which they already owned - a replacement lens from Howard Grubb was ordered in 1887 and finally arrived in 1890. I'm trying to find out about that one too!