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Thread: Bird Photography with LF

  1. #51

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    Quote Originally Posted by pdmoylan View Post
    ...APO Ronars, mtfs of longer FLs show low contrast at working aperture’s, though aberations such as distortion, astigmatism and curvature of field look good
    Given that they were designed for process work, a very flat-field, low/ no aberrations and very even sharpness across the field matter far more if you are dealing with half-tone dots & litho film than contrast.

  2. #52
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    According to his own statements, Porter often preferred older uncoated lenses for bird photography itself, for sake of lower contrast. But more modern multicoated Artars, Apo Ronars etc are definitely NOT low contrast lenses. And you are quite mistaken about process lenses, especially the more expensive ones, which can be very contrasty, and work well for all kinds of subjects and all kinds of flms, not just flat copy work indoors. Some sheer misconceptions here.

    Porter first got Stieglitz's attention for his black and white bird nest n' eggs photos. Later in life, his black and white prints were often made from the red color separation negative borrowed from his color dye transfer set, so involved relatively high contrast developed Super XX film, with its own look when repurposed in that manner.

  3. #53

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    I recall a photo of Reinhardt Wolfe taking color images of NYC using a 1000mm APO Ronar with 2 tripods and lots of bellows extensions (Sinar I believe). The taking magnifications for this project would between 1:3 to 1:10, so the added extension might make this untenable unless using telephoto models.

    The longer FL Ronar mtfs are markedly lower than wider FLs. Also there are two versions of certain Ronars, with 4 and 6 element versions and different open apertureís.

    I canít see why an older process lens or even a more modern Ronar would be preferable to a more modern APO tele if for no other reason than shorter bellows extension. Iíve always been impressed with the color output quality of the APO symmars and tele xenars, a step above older models. The real question is how well do the tele xenars perform at these higher magnifications. If not well, whatís the next best choice?

    Regarding Porterís use of lower contrast lenses for this work, his choice may have more to do with the high contrast created by the power and location of the flashes. For this type of work my choice would be longer FL APO symmars or APO Sironars and using umbrellas to reduce harsh flash light effects. Modern plasmat designs provide very good closeup performance. One could also consider 210-300mm macro lenses to optimize resolution.

  4. #54

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    From a few years ago, out my dinning room window - shot this on 8X10 X-ray film, probably about ISO 50-80 - Packard shutter, so about 1/25th second - I think the lens was a Congo 360mm:





    Put the photos back up on dropbox

    How far away would you estimate you were from the hummingbird?
    Arca-Swiss 8x10/4x5 | Mamaya 6x7 | Leica 35mm | Blackmagic Ultra HD Video
    Sound Devices audio recorder, Schoeps & DPA mikes
    Mac Studio/Eizo with Capture One, Final Cut, DaVinci Resolve, Logic

  5. #55

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    Some prefer single coated lenses for B+W work, but they wouldn’t be my choice for color closeups.

  6. #56

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    Quote Originally Posted by pdmoylan View Post
    I recall a photo of Reinhardt Wolfe taking color images of NYC using a 1000mm APO Ronar with 2 tripods and lots of bellows extensions (Sinar I believe). The taking magnifications for this project would between 1:3 to 1:10, so the added extension might make this untenable unless using telephoto models.

    The longer FL Ronar mtfs are markedly lower than wider FLs. Also there are two versions of certain Ronars, with 4 and 6 element versions and different open apertureís.

    I canít see why an older process lens or even a more modern Ronar would be preferable to a more modern APO tele if for no other reason than shorter bellows extension. Iíve always been impressed with the color output quality of the APO symmars and tele xenars, a step above older models. The real question is how well do the tele xenars perform at these higher magnifications. If not well, whatís the next best choice?

    Regarding Porterís use of lower contrast lenses for this work, his choice may have more to do with the high contrast created by the power and location of the flashes. For this type of work my choice would be longer FL APO symmars or APO Sironars and using umbrellas to reduce harsh flash light effects. Modern plasmat designs provide very good closeup performance. One could also consider 210-300mm macro lenses to optimize resolution.
    There's a difference between a lens being high resolving and very sharp. And a contrasty origination medium like transparency (most of which aren't super sharp compared to neg materials - they rely on the contrast to seem sharp) may appear to make up some of the difference - and the use of strobe wasn't just to freeze action, it was to try & fill shadows.

    As for Porter, the chapter he wrote in Lustrum Press' 'Landscape Theory' states that he used (amongst others) a 210mm (He calls it an "8"") Schneider Repro-Claron (same deal as an Apo-Ronar or Apo-Nikkor or Artar/R.D. Artar) and a convertible uncoated "7 1/4" Protar" (probably a 7 1/8" VIIa - which had 13 3/4" and 11 1/2" components that Porter reported using separately) on 4x5".

  7. #57

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    APO ronar (single and multi-coated), APO artar (single coated), APO nikkor (_?_ coated) are NOT low contrast lenses. They are not only very low geometric distortion, uber resolution, very low in optical aberrations, they are the most preferred choice for longer than normal focal lengths for image making needs at f16 to f45. These APO process lenses are excellent from infinity to 1:1 life size. Tele-photo design view camera lenses are typically designed and optimized for infinity.

    Having owned-used the 600/800/1200mm ED Tele-Nikkor years ago, these APO process lenses have better optical performance than the Tele-Nikkor. What these tele lens designs offer is less camera/bellows extension required for a given lens focal length allowing the camera and support system to be more manageable which is NO small advantage.

    The belief APO process lenses are only good for flat copy work and such is absolutely False. That said, still have a 360mm & 500mm f5.5 Tele Xenar and 500mm f9.5 Tele-Congo which meets every view camera need for lenses like this. Their image results produced are more than good enough for this image making need, cannot be convince the last iteration of Schneider APO Xenar can or results in worthy image quality improvements over these older lens designs or APO process lenses as there are SO many other factors involved in how the finished image turns out. Yes, the collection of APO process lenses goes from 4" APO artar to 780mm f14 APO ronar all in barrel, used with the Sinar Shutter on a Sinar camera made up as needed.

    The most significant challenge and difficulty for using these uber long focal length lenses on any view camera is stability and rigidity of the outfit. Trying to achieve this in a windy outdoor setting is packed with extreme difficulties, or why using uber long lens focal lengths in a view camera is not ideal in too many ways.

    So yes, BIG fan of APO process lenses after using so many view camera lenses over so many decades of doing view camera stuff.

    As for Bird and similar images, the outfit of choice remains a Canon 300mm f2.8 or longer Canon "L" series lens (Image stabilization can and does remarkable image improvements that are very real) on 35mm film or digital as they offer very real advantages no uber long lens focal length lens on a view camera could ever offer. This is much about applying the proper tool for a given need.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by pdmoylan View Post
    Looking at Ken Lee’s web page on APO Ronars, mtfs of longer FLs show low contrast at working aperture’s, though aberations such as distortion, astigmatism and curvature of field look good if these calculated mtfs can be realized in reality.

    I go back to the very expensive Schneider 800mm f12 apo tele Xenar as a better choice perhaps provided it can be used in closeup work. Nikon did not recommend the T series for this kind of work, so…

    Any other choices? Did Fuji offer something longer than 600mm?

  8. #58
    Eric Woodbury
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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	226081

  9. #59

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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    See http://www.keithlogan.com/Keith_Loga...otography.html

    scroll down to Birds, 72 images

  10. #60
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    Re: Bird Photography with LF

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Put the photos back up on dropbox
    How far away would you estimate you were from the hummingbird?
    Not sure what you mean about dropbox - did I mess something up in my posting procedure?

    As for the distance - I believe about 2 ft, give or take.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/bigger4b.jpg

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