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Thread: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

  1. #41

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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by sperdynamite View Post
    I've been recently having a 'how I learned to stop worrying and love RC' moment personally. Mostly due to time constraints and frustration with print flattening. Seal presses are super hard to find and always a bit more than I think they 'aught' to cost. I have been using merely as a flattener, the Arkay print dryer I have but it sometimes leaves the edges curly.

    Personally with the newest MG paper from Ilford I think it's a bit foolish to proof and contact on fiber. You can do 90% of your work on RC and then when it's time for that show or gift or sale, you do a run on fiber. The previous generation of RC papers looked noticeably worse than FB stocks, but this new one is really nice.
    May I recommend this. It just works. Just a bit over $100 on eBay, they come in different sizes.

    https://youtu.be/MWQNk9b-99U

  2. #42
    Pieter's Avatar
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    I have all those tools and learned to use them 23 years ago

    I have fancy boxes filled with interleaved Hot mount on 23 year old Light Impressions matt board

    and plenty of that good old LI matt board still sealed

    I for one am tired of 'experts' banging their drums

    A few years ago every expert had classes that few could afford as the travel, time, gear and 'expert' guy add up

    Nobody does Print exchanged any more, my 2 were mounted FB. Duh!

    and I doubt we survive to 2023

    I feel no shame in doing what I want, when I want and how I want

    I also suspect many of the loudest Experts are good friends with the suppliers and get deals

    Salesmen and their lackeys do lie
    Photography is not an inexpensive undertaking. Film, chemicals (or processing), paper (including what goes in the trash for tests, etc), and mounting, matting and framing if you choose--all are not cheap. To complain about the added cost of fiber paper and the extra time and care it might take is pretty ridiculous. Especially if you take the time and care to make a good print--doesn't it deserve the best you can afford? And I very much doubt anyone is in the pocket of suppliers. There just isn't that much competition or interest to justify that kind of marketing outlay. Deals might be made for large quantities because some do consume a lot, but they are probably available to anyone buying like that. So stop whining.

    As far as workshops go, they're a way of making a living. Do you deny pay for teachers? No one is forcing anyone to take the workshops, if you do some research you will usually find some feedback about how well they are taught and if the skills promised are really demonstrated and learned by the participants. And depending on where you are located, there may be a less expensive option--a local photo group, community college or even an individual willing to share.

  3. #43
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    There's no reason for any modern RC print to "outgas". The very thin semi-permeable plastic sandwich material is PET, not vinyl. No plasticizers like with vinyl. But at one time there was an alleged oxidation reaction to the optical brighteners or something else in the paper coating. That issue was apparently solved. I doubt that Sistan or any other treatment made a significant difference in print longevity; that particular study is now quite old and possibly obsolete. The long term integrity of the paper support itself is always open to question; but that's the hidden bear lurking in the woods with inkjet substates too. An involved topic with a lot of lingering questions.

    RC does have an advantage in water-restricted areas, since they wash out way faster. Nice for teaching darkroom beginners too. But I'll personally never buy RC again; that just wouldn't fit in with my larger body of black and white work.

  4. #44
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    There's no reason for any modern RC print to "outgas".
    There may not be any reason for it, but it does (according to people who worked at kodak). From what I remember him telling me in the chatroom
    if you frame it, don't put glazing in the frame . (paraphrase)

  5. #45
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    That's all old talk, John, and I know at least one person behind it. If it's important to someone, they should try to find newer research. Many of us are aware of performance issues in older RC products. But so were the manufacturers, and a lot of water has gone under the bridge since, R&D-wise. But I admittedly haven't paid much attention to it since I print exclusively on FB. Regardless, because RC got that reputation and it stuck, its gonna get a bum rap whether it remains true today or not. I can't imagine framing without glazing for anything allegedly serious; but not everyone demands "serious".

  6. #46
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    That's all old talk, John, and I know at least one person behind it. If it's important to someone, they should try to find newer research. Many of us are aware of performance issues in older RC products. But so were the manufacturers, and a lot of water has gone under the bridge since, R&D-wise. But I admittedly haven't paid much attention to it since I print exclusively on FB. Regardless, because RC got that reputation and it stuck, its gonna get a bum rap whether it remains true today or not. I can't imagine framing without glazing for anything allegedly serious; but not everyone demands "serious".
    Not sure what to say Drew
    Ron Mowrey was a respected and renown scientist, a guy who had patents for one of the Kodachromes, BLIX, developers, He was steeped in science and experience and until the end he was connected to that whole word, he was a known quantity and had credentials. Sorry to sound like a jerk, but you are some argumentative guy on the internet and your only credentials are the things that you post. Personally I'd take Ron Mowrey's observations, insights and suggestions, sorry.
    Last edited by jnantz; 24-Mar-2022 at 07:02.

  7. #47

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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    How many "fine" printers sell RC prints?

    Have been told that some well known photographers used RC and ended up having to replace a lot of prints sold - that did not last. Also - the labs printing some of these for them did not stand behind the printing and closed as a result. I emphasize "have been told" - so if someone knows what reality is, please let us know so I'm not repeating old husbands tales.
    "My forumla for successful printing remains ordinary chemicals, an ordinary enlarger, music, a bottle of scotch - and stubbornness." W. Eugene Smith

  8. #48

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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    Like most things in life the luxury elevates the experience. Like some expensive luxury cars make you enjoy driving more vs getting from point a to point b, or writing with a fine pen, or drinking fine wine. Fiber gives a feeling of luxury paper compared to RC (even though the new Ilford Portfolio RC is fantastic tonally).
    Adventure is worthwhile in itself. ... Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done. -- Amelia Earhart
    http://www.searing.photography

  9. #49
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    LOL

    I will try it!

    Quote Originally Posted by esearing View Post
    Like most things in life the luxury elevates the experience. Like some expensive luxury cars make you enjoy driving more vs getting from point a to point b, or writing with a fine pen, or drinking fine wine. Fiber gives a feeling of luxury paper compared to RC (even though the new Ilford Portfolio RC is fantastic tonally).
    https://www.ilfordphoto.com/new-prod...-rc-portfolio/

    Don't forget I drove $100 cars for a decade, no insurance required by the State

    I almost never crash and always drive the speed limit

    I no longer drive for the safety of others
    Tin Can

  10. #50
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    Re: Is fiber paper worth the additional cost for selling prints compared to rc paper?

    I do have it, that's what I bought last month!

    SAVE WATER

    BTW I remember

    If it's yellow it's mellow

    If it's brown flush it down
    Tin Can

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