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Thread: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

  1. #11

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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    late 1980s annual report photographers loved to use mixed ( hot and strobe and ambient ) and drag the shutters to give that warm and fuzzy look
    Nothing was "dragged". Slower shutter speeds are used.
    "My forumla for successful printing remains ordinary chemicals, an ordinary enlarger, music, a bottle of scotch - and stubbornness." W. Eugene Smith

  2. #12
    Ironage's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Another effect is extremely slow shutter speeds at night with the moving light of cars and such. The close subject lit by the flash will be clear and everything else blurs.
    ...Dilettante! Who you calling a Dilettante?

  3. #13

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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    Nothing was "dragged". Slower shutter speeds are used.
    LOL… I know what John means but “drag”, if I’m not mistaken, is a digital camera term; As a predominantly film photographer I still don’t exactly understand it. Using slower shutter speed I understand!

  4. #14

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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Another means to control lighting ratio.

    Power of flash can be "key" light.
    Shutter time can be "fill" light.

    This Foto practice goes back a very, very long time ago, since electronic flash-strobe became commonly available.
    Works with flash bulbs too.



    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by LabRat View Post
    Old flash commandment;

    Aperture controls the flash exposure, shutter controls the ambient light exposure...

    Steve K

  5. #15
    (Shrek)
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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Power of flash can be "key" light.
    Shutter time can be "fill" light.
    I've always done the opposite. But then I rarely shoot in studio, when you're outside you can't overpower the sun with your flash even on a cloudy day. Then I see wedding photogs working outside with their flash on bounce mode, pointing straight up.

  6. #16

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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    "Drag the shutter" is not a new/digi expression...we did it and called it that in the '80's. Then 35mm cameras with dedicated flashes improved, and second curtain sync with TTL metering came along and made it effortless.

  7. #17

    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jody_S View Post
    I've always done the opposite. But then I rarely shoot in studio, when you're outside you can't overpower the sun with your flash even on a cloudy day. Then I see wedding photogs working outside with their flash on bounce mode, pointing straight up.
    That's where high-speed TTL comes in; it's a popular technology but the flash needs electronics specific to your camera brand. High speed TTL uses a series of smaller bursts which are much faster duration than full power. I don't know if it's even usable on film cameras, of if for example you get a HS capable flash for your Nikon DSLR/Mirrorless, will it work with AF-era film cameras or not? I think Nikon Speedlights may, but don't know about the aftermarket monolights. I've only messed with it using a speedlight on a digital camera.

    It's pretty amazing as far as options go, and it's responsible for some pretty dramatic looks, like full daylight surroundings that seem like heavy ND was applied. And it "just works" in my experience, it's the same as adjusting shutter speed outdoors to control ambient light, but instead of a 1/60th or 1/200th limit, you're now up to 1/8000th. I have an SB-16 (Nikon) flash and it's worked great on my digital stuff, I'd want to test the heck out of it with film (thought the SB is a film-era flash I believe?) And if so, it's probably only available shooting 35mm film vs. larger formats.

    But I'm not a wedding or portrait guy in my day-gigs, so not something I'd really dive deep into. In reality, it's a rare modern-era-upgrade that's simple and easy to implement while offering some massive options for exposure and balancing light.

  8. #18

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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Overpowering the sun ala "sunny f16" is not that difficult, just requires flash-strobe power or rapid shutter speeds.

    Tradition of Synchro-Sunlight Fotos goes back a long ways as it was one of the ways flash/strobe was applied to fill in image subject shadows. The tradition was to essentially balance the ambient light (sunlight, overcast or indoor) with the light available via strobe/flash (flash bulb or electronic strobe) filling in what would have been shadow areas in the subject. Most commonly used in wedding Fotos to this day, Press Fotos and more back in the day.

    Back in the later 1970's the classic 200watt/second Norman 200B
    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...ed-Norman-200b

    plus leaf shutter lens Hasselblad were the wedding "industry" standard issue. The Zeiss leaf shutter lenses for Hasselblad and other leaf shutter cameras allowed X sync at any shutter speed, 200w/s with a standard defector on the flash head produced about f16 at 10 feet, apply the "sunny f16"rule nets about 1/125 second shutter speed (ISO 100) with 200w/s standard reflector on the flash head nets good enough shadow fill. Upping the shutter speed allows using larger lens apertures.

    Fixed at 10ft camera/flash (200w/s) to subject nets:

    ~f16 @ 1/125 sec.

    ~f11 @ 1/250 sec.

    ~f8 @ 1/500 sec, leaf shutter limit.

    ~f5.6 @ 1/1000 sec.

    ~f4 @ 1/2000 sec.

    ~f2.8 @ 1/4000 sec.

    ~f2.0 @ 1/8000 sec.

    Key light via strobe or fill light via strobe , alter the shutter speed to achieve the required lighting ratio.

    First of the portable uber power portable electronic flash units was the Comet PMT-1200, 1200watt/seconds, portable and works GOOD. Has adapter cables allowing use of Comet studio strobe heads on this portable unit.
    https://www.adorama.com/ctpmt1200.htm

    Then Elinchrom introduced their Ranger and later Ranger RX which is 1100watt/seconds of pack power. This is the first of the portable studio strobe units with a pile of possible light modifiers that can be used outdoors. 1100 or 1200watt/seconds is not a lot of power once light modifiers are applied.

    It was Elinchrom that began the High Speed Sync feature allowing electronic flash sync to 1/8000 second with their Ranger series.
    https://www.elinchrom.com/discover/e...i-sync-or-hss/

    Canon and Nikon also offered a similar feature. Not long after, Pocketwizard cooked up a Good wireless strobe system with HSS sync for digital cameras via software on their radio strobe triggers. These work Good.
    https://wiki.pocketwizard.com/?title...igh_Speed_Sync

    Like the Elinchrom Ranger series lots as they are powerful enough for applying light modifiers outdoors or indoors, large power range adjustment (1100w/s to ~7w/s), works with all Elinchrom or compatible light modifiers and accessories (extremely important thing), reliable and lighter weigh once modernized with a Lithium battery in place of the OEM sealed lead acid battery.

    Powerful studio strobe packs are not much in demand these days due to the much lower strobe power needs (typically 100w/s is enough) of digital cameras. Strobe needs today for digital cameras are compact "monolights" with a built in lithium batter, wireless com with the digital camera including E-TTL or similar allowing High Speed Sync to 1/8000 second shutter speed, digital camera control of the strobe and all that. Even lighting ratios are applied with in-digital camera software.


    Bernice



    Quote Originally Posted by Jody_S View Post
    I've always done the opposite. But then I rarely shoot in studio, when you're outside you can't overpower the sun with your flash even on a cloudy day. Then I see wedding photogs working outside with their flash on bounce mode, pointing straight up.

  9. #19
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Movie folk overpower the Sun so they can get reliable lighting

    Big lamps aiming through windows

    Day for Night, long common

    I liked 'how they lit it for the latest Citizen Kane movie, 'Mank'

    The lighting was impressive
    Tin Can

  10. #20

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    Re: Shutter Speed... Flash... What Difference Does It Make?

    Absolutely _!_

    Lighting in cinema is an extremely important aspect of filmmaking, IMO Fotography IS much about light, lighting and related.

    As exampled by Stanley Kubrick:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOLZMr52Wcc

    Cinema lighting can demand remarkable amounts of lighting power, Still images has the luxury of being able to apply flash/strobe.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Movie folk overpower the Sun so they can get reliable lighting

    Big lamps aiming through windows

    Day for Night, long common

    I liked 'how they lit it for the latest Citizen Kane movie, 'Mank'

    The lighting was impressive

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