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Thread: Question about 130 paper Developer

  1. #1

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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    I just purchased some 130 paper developer from photo formulary. i'm wondering what it is that so many people rave about? how does this compare to the standard: dektol? i'm printing on forte NB fibre base paper. also, what are the standard dilutions with this developer? tonight i treated it like dektol and dilted it 1:2 for two minutes, and got really nice results, but i can't see a difference between it and dektol.

  2. #2
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    my closest experience is with fortezo (warm tone). compared with dektol, the 130 gives richer shadows and nicer separation in the midtones overall. it will also give a diferent color, but if you're toning that's much less important. the differences aren't huge, but very noticeable.

    some papers respond much less to changes in developer than others. in general, cold tone papers are less responsive than warm tone ones. so it's not beyond reason that the differences on the NB paper would be very subtle.

    standard dilution for 130 is 1:1, but using it anywhere from straight to 1:2 is common. not sure about weaker dilutions. the differences between dilutions are the same as with dektol ... you'll get a more high key, compensating curve look with weaker dilutions.

  3. #3

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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    I confess to having thought that the differences were great. I was wrong. There is a slight difference in color, but that's about all I saw. This may be related to the freshness (or lack thereof) of the Glycin in the 130.

    On the other hand, 130 has a very long life, even in its working dilution. If you want to leave some around in the tray for a few days, and then use it some more, it's still fine - which is a nice surprise.

    But upon a second close comparison of the print quality, I was underwhelmed.

  4. #4

    Question about 130 paper Developer

    Paul and Ken answered well, I second most of it.

    The differences aren't apparent with cold papers as with warm paper. What I see different with Ilford papers is the total lack of "the greenness" that I get with Dektol. Ilford MG comes out totally neutral to my eye. Bergger VCCB in 130 is just magic to me with "fluffy, glowy" whites and great shadow detail. This is my preference rather than any thing scientifically better. Its my favorite combination ever.

    The other thing is the keeping quality - I use 130 by storing the used working developer in bottles and adding fresh stock solution to replenish the amount carried out. I can use the same developer for many printing sessions this way. It lasts literally months when sealed against air. I like this low waste situation.

    About the only downside is that 130 needs to be at least 70 degrees to work properly. Prints from cold 130 look really funky compared to prints processed at 70-74 degrees F.

    But whatever others may think, if you're happy with Dektol then thats the developer for you.

  5. #5

    Question about 130 paper Developer

    What they said. I noticed a slightly cooler image, but no huge change from Dektol.

  6. #6

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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    I find that 130 actually requires a little longer than the usual recommendations to do it's job. Instead of increasing contrast, the blacks gets much blacker (DMax) and more shadow detail appears, while the highlights don't get bumped. Incidentally, I think that Dektol is a superb product, and any improvement that any developer will show is gonna be subtle -- even Amidol.
    Wilhelm (Sarasota)

  7. #7

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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    When I firt went to 130 from dektol I was gonna keep a tray of each side by side for the first few sessions just to compare. But the first print in the 130 looked so much more glowing and cleaner than the dektol print that I didnt bother. Course this is scratch mixed 130, dont know how it compares with the formulary ready mix.

  8. #8
    Scott Davis
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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    Colin- the Formulary kit is chems in powder, separate packages, so other than potential longer-term storage before mixing, there should be no difference between your home-brew and theirs. It is not available in pre-mixed liquid form that I know of.

    The reason I switched to the 130 developer from Dektol was that wierd greenish tone I was getting on my Bergger VCCB. The 130 got rid of that and gave a very nice neutral-to-warm with the Bergger. I have since started using the new Ilford Warmtone and Cooltone developers, which come in a premixed liquid. The really nice thing about the new Ilford paper developers is that you can vary the time in each developer for a given print to alter the warm/cool balance. If you have a membership on APUG, you can see examples of the difference between Ansco 130, Ilford Warmtone, Ilford Cooltone, and split Warm/Cooltone in my gallery (TheFlyingCamera).

  9. #9
    Abuser of God's Sunlight
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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    "About the only downside is that 130 needs to be at least 70 degrees to work properly. Prints from cold 130 look really funky compared to prints processed at 70-74 degrees F."

    i did a bunch of research on this, since i used 130 and 120 for years in a darkroom with barely medieval climate control. i found i could get completely consistent results with both developers from 56 to well over 80 degrees. the issue is calculating the temperature/time factor for each developer. i was worried that each developing agent would respond differently to changes in temperature, making consistency impossible, but this didn't seem to be the case--except that below 55 or 56 degrees hydroquinone becomes inactive, and the 130 essentially stops working at all.

    matching time to temperature is especially important if you're using certain toners. development differences that are invisible in an untoned print canbecome obvious in a toned print.

    you can download my chart for ansco 130 at www.paulraphaelson.com/downloads/ansco130temp-time.pdf and for ansco 120 at www.paulraphaelson.com/downloads/ansco120temp-time.pdf

  10. #10

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    Question about 130 paper Developer

    "But the first print in the 130 looked so much more glowing and cleaner than the dektol print that I didnt bother. Course this is scratch mixed 130, dont know how it compares with the formulary ready mix."



    These things can be rather subjective. I had the same experience - perhaps because I wanted to see a vast improvement, due to enthusiasm, or because of the lighting, or because the print hadn't had a chance to dry down... who knows.



    Perhaps someone with a densitometer can measure the dMax with Dektol versus Ansco 130. Perhaps someone already has, and can share it with us ?

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