Modifications to Kodak 8x10 hangers for even development of double-sided X-Ray film

[malexand]

Interesting results! I've got a few extra hangers I will try modifying when I have a chance. I also have some 4x5, 4-up hangers that I have had really noticeable issues with surging at the holes in the middle channels, so I may consider opening up those as well if I can get better results.

[Sam L]

Hi Matt,

For whatever reason, I don't get surge marks with my unmodified 4-up kodak hangers, even with 1:250 pyro and dip-and-dunk agitation. My agitation technique is: lift, tip >45 degrees away from me, lower; lift tip >45 degrees towards me, lower. The lift, tip lower takes about 5 seconds. I agitate continuously for 1 minute and then do 1 pair of dip-dunks every 30s until the end. I have not tried these hangers with gas burst agitation or other developers.

In general, I found that more, rougher agitation resulted in more surging but less bromide drag (which is less of an issue at 4x5 than it is at 8x10). You might also see improvement with more gentle agitation.

X-ray film cut down to 4x5 is a very inexpensive way to experiment (~10 cents a sheet).

With the 8x10 hangers, the most effective modification I found was closing (not opening) the holes drilled in the face. I think it makes sense to try that first because it's easy to peel off a layer of epoxy or hot glue if it doesn't work.

[Jim Noel]

To fix the remaining surge marks at the bottom of the hanger, I used a cutoff wheel and a file to remove most of the metal in the bottom, creating long open slots:
Attachment 223439

The result was no more surge marks on the edges:
Attachment 223440

There is still more development at the margins (I'm guessing more turbulence from the hangers) but the lighter edges are much nicer than the surge marks from the pores.

Do you dip the hangers in Photo Flo? If so that is probably the cause of over-development along the edges. PF adheres to the metal and becomes a catalyst, thus over-development. Wash the hangers and use a toothbrush to scrub inside and out. Your problem should be solved if you keep them out of PF. I haven't used it since about 1970.
Jim

[Mark Sampson]

Solving these issues can be a long road. You're trying some innovative ideas, great!
When I worked for Kodak, for a few years I ran a b/w sink line- 3-1/2 gallon tanks, using replenished D-76 and an EK gas-burst system. Most of the evenness issues had been fixed long before I was hired, but there were a few that I had to solve. However that was in the late 1980s and the details are long forgotten... except that it was a pain to solve. Since I was shooting about half the film that went through that sink line, there was a powerful incentive to get it right!
I will add that Jim Noel is correct. My first real job was in a custom lab, developing B/W film. That place had a procedure called "purging" where once a week, hangers, reels, etc. were soaked in running 100F water for 15-20 minutes. The lab owner explained that this was to remove any Photo-Flo buildup. I used manual agitation there, never any unevenness problems.
Best of luck!

[Sam L]

No, I don't use photoflo. But, I will try scrubbing the hangers. Maybe they're contaminated from a past life or with other stuff. Thanks for the idea!

[Sam L]

I wanted to add that if you are willing to pay for standard full-strength chemicals and name-brand film, you will probably get excellent results with unmodified hangers and dip-and-dunk agitation. This stuff has been around and working for a long time and I imagine that's the right choice for most professionals. I'm working on this because I'm an amateur and I can't justify $10+ per photo but I still want to use an 8x10 camera and get good results.

I'm now getting excellent results with these hanger mods and the gas burst agitation system I talked about here:
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...vertical-tanks
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...lopment-Issues

Fuji HR-U is $0.40/sheet and Rodinal and home-made Pyro developers are $0.25/sheet. I figure that saves me about $150 every time I use the camera. HR-U also looks great to me -- all of the dynamic range and sharpness I need for portraits, classic orthochromatic look and ISO 80 to boot. I hope other people can use some of these ideas and make a bunch of art with these amazing old cameras.

I will say that Tin Can is getting even development with unmodified hangers on x-ray film and his gas burst system. Yet, I now have a similar gas burst system and when I copied his technique to the letter, I got surge marks and ghosting from my hangers. I think we are using different x-ray films because his development times are much longer for the same developer and concentration.

Intuitively, if the hangers are asymmetrical but your film is symmetrical (double-sided), your development cannot be even. There are holes in only one face of the Kodak hangers (interestingly, facing the non-emulsion side of standard film).

Furthermore, if one side of the hanger is touching the emulsion you will get a mark where it touches 100% of the time. The top of both Kodak and Carr hangers touch the rear emulsion of double-sided film along the top.