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Thread: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

  1. #11

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Per post #7, I won't get all of the available rise, fall and shift until the bellows is extended about 180mm. As the chart below shows, at 180mm I'm approaching close-up territory with a scale/reproduction ratio of 1:5. When customs releases the lens, one of the first things that I need to do is decide whether the rise, fall and shift that is available before 180mm (it's 30mm at 150mm) is adequate for the time being. If not, the options are a wide angle bellows or Oslolens's suggestion (post #4 and following) to address this via off-centre placement of the lens on its lens board.

    This chart deals with exposure add-ons for bellows and filters, but the first two columns show the relationship between scale and bellows length:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by r.e.; 4-Jan-2022 at 09:36.

  2. #12

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Re graduated neutral density filters (post #1), I asked Lee Filters about hiring someone to make a 112mm adapter ring for its SW150 Holder. If I decide to go this route at some point, I'd engage S.K. Grimes to do the work given what Lee's reply says. This is from Lee's U.S. office:

    "So i just heard back from the UK and they let me know that the performance of the holder on a custom ring would really depend on the design of the ring and the expectations you have for the holder.

    "In theory you could have a 112mm thread with an extension out in front to mount the holder, but you likely won't achieve the wide angle performance of the LEE Adaptor Rings. This is due to relying on the ability to position the holder over the lens, which puts the first filter as close to the lens element as possible. Based off the info provided you wouldn't be able to mount the holder in the optimal position, which may cause the holder to be visible in the image.

    "Ultimately it could work but we cannot guarantee it due to it not being a 3rd party product."

    S.K. Grimes has made filter holders in the past, and it might make sense to ask it to make one of its own design that will work with 150mm wide filters.

    There are some discussions on the internet that have convinced me to also try hand-holding a graduated ND filter, which appears to be a more common practice than I would have thought.

    I think that it will be useful to spend some time learning how sensitive the lens is to vignetting when the centre filter is in place. With the lens by itself having a filter diameter of 95mm (3.74"), the centre filter adds a further 17mm (0.67").
    Last edited by r.e.; 4-Jan-2022 at 13:04.

  3. #13

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    I guess because of the season, it took DHL ten days to ship the lens from Europe to New York, and customs another three days to release it. In any event, now I have the lens and centre filter, which appear to be in wonderful condition. This weekend, winter weather permitting, I'll find out whether the standard bellows gives me enough rise/fall and shift for my current needs, and post a couple of photos. If not, the options are a bag bellows or, as Oslolens explains above, mounting the lens on a lens board off-centre.

  4. #14
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Looking forward to the results. I enjoy super-wide photography, but find it very challenging.

    Sometimes it is clearly obvious a super-wide lens was used, but other times, it is not obvious; there can be more mystery in the image as to why it looks to way it looks.
    For example this one. Even seasoned photographers might not immediately recognize this as a 125mm lens on 8x10. To me that mystery makes it special.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #15

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Size of the objects in the foreground relative to the objects in the background are an absolute give-away this image was made using a wide angle lens. Larger this difference = wider angle or shorter focal length of the lens used to create the image. This is also why many have difficulty with "wide angle" lens images.


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by ic-racer View Post
    Looking forward to the results. I enjoy super-wide photography, but find it very challenging.

    Sometimes it is clearly obvious a super-wide lens was used, but other times, it is not obvious; there can be more mystery in the image as to why it looks to way it looks.
    For example this one. Even seasoned photographers might not immediately recognize this as a 125mm lens on 8x10. To me that mystery makes it special.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #16
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    I think of that image in terms of lack of converging perspective lines. There are lines on the center rock, but how big is it and are they even parallel? They are not parallel or level and produce conflicting vanishing points.
    Even with obvious converging perspective lines, there still can be some mystery.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #17

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    What lens was used?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    What lens was used?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bernice

  8. #18

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Weekend snow followed by freezing temperatures is not co-operating with the idea of taking the camera and lens outdoors to assess whether my standard bellows allows enough rise/fall and shift for my needs. The forecast predicts a break toward the end of the week.

    I have looked into the practicalities of mounting the lens off-centre. I'd need a blank Arca-Swiss 171mm lens board, flat rather than recessed for the reason explained in post #8. This means coming across new old stock or ordering one from a third party maker. There appear to be one or two makers in China, and there may be one in the U.K. The blanks made by Arca-Swiss that I've seen have a pilot hole in the centre. If a pilot hole goes straight through, it would have to be filled or covered. Add the cost of hiring a machinist to drill a Copal #1 hole.

    I'm not holding my breath on coming across a 171mm 8x10 bag bellows second-hand. I know that Arca-Swiss made a 171mm 4x5 bellows for a forum participant a few months ago, but I haven't asked yet whether it will make an 8x10 or what it would cost. A Hong Kong maker wants about US$425, which is a fair bit less than what Arca-Swiss would likely want. A purchaser of a 4x5 bellows from the Hong Kong maker tells me that he thinks that his is well-made.

    Photo of a blank Arca-Swiss 171 lens board
    from eBay. Another photo in the eBay listing
    shows that the pilot hole goes through to the
    rear of the board.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #19

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    . The blanks made by Arca-Swiss that I've seen have a pilot hole in the centre. If a pilot hole goes straight through.
    If you need to use an Arca with pilot hole, you can reduce the off-centre dimension until the pilot hole is within the hole needed.
    For a hole with diameter copal #1 (41.6mm) I would use a hand held drill and a tungsten hole bore a bit smaller and a round file.
    40mm tungsten hole drill: $15 on amazon or ebay.
    You do not need the structural integrity of a welded hole, so this can be filled with black glue.

    Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk

  10. #20

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    Re: Using Schneider Kreuznach’s Super-Symmar XL 150mm Lens

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslolens View Post
    If you need to use an Arca with pilot hole, you can reduce the off-centre dimension until the pilot hole is within the hole needed.
    For a hole with diameter copal #1 (41.6mm) I would use a hand held drill and a tungsten hole bore a bit smaller and a round file.
    40mm tungsten hole drill: $15 on amazon or ebay.
    You do not need the structural integrity of a welded hole, so this can be filled with black glue.

    Sent fra min SM-G975F via Tapatalk
    To do it correctly, never use a drill, it can cause strains in the board and using one could damage you.
    Use a chassis punch. Greenlee makes them.

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