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Thread: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

  1. #11
    Photographer LocalHero1953's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    Use 'camera neutral 2' instead of the Adobe standard profile.

    You can use Wolf Faust's IT8 targets to make icc files....but Lightroom doesn't use ICC files. (Capture 1 does.)

    Since you use Lightroom, it's not worth it.

    You can photography a Macbeth target, and then scan the film. Use the HSL adjustments to get a good match. Save that as a profile.

    All that said, what these types of things do is get you in the ball park. Conditions vary, and so the profile's usefulness will vary. Learn to get the results you want through editing. For example, you can have the slide on a good light box. Use adjustments to visually match the slide (if that's what you want.)
    Thank you - yes, I was using the wrong term - I want to make a camera profile for Lightroom (#.dcp file), which I have done before with a ColorChecker Passport and Xrite software. I have not yet found a transparency version of one yet, whereas there are IT8 versions - hence my question.

    I guess I could photograph a ColorChecker Passport on Provia myself, but before I do so I wanted to tap into the practical experience here to check if this is best way to get accurate colours from transparency.
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  2. #12
    Photographer LocalHero1953's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Why are you trying to match the colors in the slide? This isn't a contest. You're trying to make colors in the finished photo that are appealing to viewers. Satisfy your own eyes and forget the match.
    Because the colours I see in the transparency on the light table are much more appealing to this viewer than I have achieved so far in Lightroom.
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  3. #13
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalHero1953 View Post
    Because the colours I see in the transparency on the light table are much more appealing to this viewer than I have achieved so far in Lightroom.
    Paul, If you can't produce color to your own eye's likes, how can you expect to match the colors in the chrome? You have to find another way.

    Now I'm not familiar with using a camera to scan. But when I use my Epson scanners, I find that the key to getting colors right is levels (black and white points). Adjusting those first gets me into the color ballpark. I can set them in the scan software using the histogram on a pre-scan. Set them just past the clipping points. Alternatively, I scan "flat" and do levels afterward in Lightroom (Black and White sliders) or Elements (Level sliders). I can fine-tune colors, contrast, etc. after that using other sliders and curves. I don't know how this process could be applied to camera scanning. But maybe my procedure will help you. Good luck.

  4. #14
    Photographer LocalHero1953's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Paul, If you can't produce color to your own eye's likes, how can you expect to match the colors in the chrome? You have to find another way.

    Now I'm not familiar with using a camera to scan. But when I use my Epson scanners, I find that the key to getting colors right is levels (black and white points). Adjusting those first gets me into the color ballpark. I can set them in the scan software using the histogram on a pre-scan. Set them just past the clipping points. Alternatively, I scan "flat" and do levels afterward in Lightroom (Black and White sliders) or Elements (Level sliders). I can fine-tune colors, contrast, etc. after that using other sliders and curves. I don't know how this process could be applied to camera scanning. But maybe my procedure will help you. Good luck.
    I'm not sure what you mean by your first line. I like the colours and tonality in the original transparency, and I would like to reproduce them in a digital version. I haven't found a way to do that so far by white balance adjustments in Lightroom or exposure/highlight/shadow/white/black points or tone curves. Hence my original question about obtaining a provia-specific camera profile. This is a process I am familiar with in other situations: usually a new model digital camera that does not have acceptable Adobe profiles at launch. I have not yet done it with a transparent profile target on a light panel.
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    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalHero1953 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by your first line. I like the colours and tonality in the original transparency, and I would like to reproduce them in a digital version. I haven't found a way to do that so far by white balance adjustments in Lightroom or exposure/highlight/shadow/white/black points or tone curves. Hence my original question about obtaining a provia-specific camera profile. This is a process I am familiar with in other situations: usually a new model digital camera that does not have acceptable Adobe profiles at launch. I have not yet done it with a transparent profile target on a light panel.
    As I mentioned, I've never used cameras to "scan". So I don't know what programs are available.

    I find my Epson scanners fairly easy to use and capture good colors pleasant to my eyes. You can load ICC profiles into the Epson V850 scanner Epsonscan, and Silverfast software as well, although I don't use them and am not familiar with the process. Good luck.

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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    LocalHero1953,

    Perhaps you are going about this backwards. Can you create a custom white balance for your camera and light source? Meaning the light source only, not any transparency on it. Then use that white balance to photograph all of your transparencies. If you are not forcing one particular white balance in the camera for this type of work, the camera will select one for you and it will be different for each transparency. This will result in wildly different results.

    -Joshua

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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Do you have access to a 4x5 enlarger with a colorhead? You can probably use the 4x5 enlarging lens as the requisite macro lens for your camera.

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    Photographer LocalHero1953's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Dunn View Post
    LocalHero1953,

    Perhaps you are going about this backwards. Can you create a custom white balance for your camera and light source? Meaning the light source only, not any transparency on it. Then use that white balance to photograph all of your transparencies. If you are not forcing one particular white balance in the camera for this type of work, the camera will select one for you and it will be different for each transparency. This will result in wildly different results.

    -Joshua
    I shall try this. I have set WB in camera to 5000K, which is what the Kaiser light panel is supposed to be, but I agree I should check it. Thank you.
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    Photographer LocalHero1953's Avatar
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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Quote Originally Posted by xkaes View Post
    Do you have access to a 4x5 enlarger with a colorhead? You can probably use the 4x5 enlarging lens as the requisite macro lens for your camera.
    I don't. I can frame and focus on the whole of a 4x5 sheet with the lens I have (Leica 24-90 zoom lens), so I shouldn't need a macro lens. I have been scanning 35mm (B&W) with a 100mm macro lens.
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  10. #20

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    Re: Scanning Provia/transparencies with a digital camera: ICC profiling?

    Your 100mm macro might give better resolution than the 24-90mm -- but you've probably already thought of that.

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