Taking film in and out of the freezer

[Ben]

Ben, how long do you expect it to take you to use the film? What is the normal ambient temperature in your house? Just asking because it might not be necessary to freeze it and risk ruining it.

Michael, what makes you say that you risk ruining the film by freezing it? House is around 24-25 degrees Celcius. I don't know when I will use that particular film, so keeping it in the freezer keeps it on the safe side.

[Kiwi7475]

I would say it can depend in exactly how it’s done, meaning, how well you remove air, humidity levels, etc.
You could easily do a worst case test for your own case by taking 5 or so sheets and putting them in the freezer. Over a couple of weeks take one, refreeze the rest, wait a day or two, etc. take some shot at home of the same thing, develop, and see if you see any ill issues. You can then leave a last sheet for a month and repeat. In this way you’ve pretty much tested all the variables and can feel safe about proceeding with freezing larger quantities. Or not, if the tests show issues.

This is what I did before freezing very expensive color 8x10 boxes.

[Ben]

I double bag using freezer zip-locs when re-freezing open packets of film to prevent freezer burn.

Yes, I do double bag with Zip-Lock bags. The question is if you take film in and out of the freezer, does it cause problems?

[Ben]

My two cents: I’ve never stored my black-and-white film in the freezer or fridge. I just make sure the box stays in a cool, dry place at room temperature. Never had any problems, or at least none that I recognize. In fact, I’ve got a box of 8x10 Tri-X that’s more than 15 years old, stored at room temp, and it gives, to my eye, decent results.

Black-and-white is a different ballgame. The question is specific to color transparency.

[Ben]

I would say it can depend in exactly how it’s done, meaning, how well you remove air, humidity levels, etc.
You could easily do a worst case test for your own case by taking 5 or so sheets and putting them in the freezer. Over a couple of weeks take one, refreeze the rest, wait a day or two, etc. take some shot at home of the same thing, develop, and see if you see any ill issues. You can then leave a last sheet for a month and repeat. In this way you’ve pretty much tested all the variables and can feel safe about proceeding with freezing larger quantities. Or not, if the tests show issues.

This is what I did before freezing very expensive color 8x10 boxes.

Has anyone on the forum done a similar test?

[nolindan]

Nicholas, this is science, not art. The question is how to handle film and how to avoid condensation when refreezing film.

I'm not sure where I mentioned 'art'.

In any case, I am approaching the question from a scientific point of view and my conclustion is there is no condensation: Experimentally - I've tried to make it happen and it doesn't (or at least, I can't - can anyone?); Theoretically - the heat capacity of film is just too low, especially compared with the heat capacity of camera bodies, pressure plates and film holders - even the air - and the enthalpy of condensation is too high.

There is, obviously, no condensation when refreezing film. Take something from inside a warm house and put it outside in subfreezing weather and see if it develops dew. If you put something warm and dewy outside in freezing weather the dew evaporates and the surrounding area frosts up. Film can get freezer burn if the film has air circulation around it or it is packed badly and the water in the gelatin evaporates and ice crystals may form.

How to do something so as to avoid something that never happens - well, that is indeed an art.

[Michael R]

Freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw... cycles, especially after the film is opened - I'm not saying don't do it, just that it does present some risk, so I was just curious to know more about the situation to try and get a sense of whether or not freezing the film at all was necessary (everything is a risk/reward balance).

Since it is colour film and you don't know when you will be using it, freezing it is probably a good idea. However once you begin using it, I wouldn't necessarily keep re-freezing it unless you think it will take a long time to go through the opened envelope/box.

I'll back out at this point since you seem to be getting all sorts of answers and I don't want to add too much confusion.

Michael, what makes you say that you risk ruining the film by freezing it? House is around 24-25 degrees Celcius. I don't know when I will use that particular film, so keeping it in the freezer keeps it on the safe side.

[nolindan]

I'll back out at this point since you seem to be getting all sorts of answers and I don't want to add too much confusion.

"Confusion will be my epitaph ..."

A certain amount of confusion is necessary. The thing to look out for is too much certainty.

It is funny that noise interferes with information, and yet the most densely compressed information is indistinguishable from noise.

* * *

I think good practice in any forum is to simply state one's experience or knowledge and not to disparage or disagree with any of the other posters - don't challenge them, don't insult them - and only comment when the comment is constructive to the quoted post.

Let the reader, and the OP, choose from among the various viewpoints.

[Ben Calwell]

Black-and-white is a different ballgame. The question is specific to color transparency.

Oops. Sorry, I didn’t read the post very carefully.

[Sal Santamaura]

The archive here has good information:

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...l=1#post817242

If your transparency film is Kodak, I'd have no issue storing the factory-sealed packets in a frost-free refrigerator's freezer compartment. I place the boxes in recloseable zipper-locking laminated aluminized polyester anti-static bags that were available to me in excess. The complete water vapor impermeability of those bags has ensured that even after a decade, there's not the slightest hint of "freezer smell" when removing sheet film boxes from them. After opening film packets, I store remaining sheets only in the low-humidity refrigerator compartment. They never go back into the freezer.

There have been reports of Fuji sheet film that was stored in its factory-sealed packets sticking together after freezer storage. I'm not sure whether Fuji's humidity control at the packaging stage is less effective than Kodak's, but might be more concerned if you're using Fuji sheet film.

Finally, if you'd really like to delve into the reasons for all this, knock yourself out:

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/subz...emp_and_RH.pdf