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Thread: Music as analogy for LF photography

  1. #91

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Classical or jazz in the darkroom...but definitely rocking it out on location!

  2. #92

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    For those who are interested in increasing their fluency in these languages of human expression does this need for learning_understanding brand them as "elitist" ?
    I’ve already explained this. Learning is not elitist. I’ve been practicing and studying music my entire life, but study is not why I truly love the pieces of music I do.

  3. #93
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Our leaders changed school from STEAM to STEM a critical error that will yield rotten fruit

    Even in 60's I was not allowed to take my prefered HS classes of art, shop, theater, forced into my 'talent' with science, I test high

    I quit Physics and college quickly as I didn't want the job or work

    I promised myself I would resume college one day

    1995 very nervous, I started over, Junior college and CLEP showed me Art, 6 years later earned MFA

    I am at peace and wake each dawn eagerly

    even now







    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Iíve already explained this. Learning is not elitist. Iíve been practicing and studying music my entire life, but study is not why I truly love the pieces of music I do.

  4. #94

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    I entered high school in the late 80s but it was similar to what you describe. Anyone who was half decent or better at math/science was strongly discouraged from taking anything arts-related - even for electives. High school. “Keep your doors open” was the phrase. I loved math and the sciences so it worked ok for me since luckily my music and art studies were outside of school at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Our leaders changed school from STEAM to STEM a critical error that will yield rotten fruit

    Even in 60's I was not allowed to take my prefered HS classes of art, shop, theater, forced into my 'talent' with science, I test high

    I quit Physics and college quickly as I didn't want the job or work

    I promised myself I would resume college one day

    1995 very nervous, I started over, Junior college and CLEP showed me Art, 6 years later earned MFA

    I am at peace and wake each dawn eagerly

    even now

  5. #95
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Just before the Junior College, I took all advice and aptitude tests they had, then took a wide range of courses as experiment

    I took a psychology course first, I sat by the door ready to run. I calmed. Fascinating instructor. I was the only student who didn't need to take the final exam, her reward and a test for others. Very good first course

    Soon I took Oceanography, the instructor pressed I major in that. I almost regret that decision

  6. #96

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    If the art doesn't grab in in the first two seconds, it's just conversation after that.
    I have to disagree with you on this I think.

    There definitely is an immediate reaction we have to a piece of art, however I would argue that is not innate. Not all learning is formal, I might even say most learning isn't formal. I don't think an infant would have an instant reaction to a piece of art as soon it opens it's eyes, rather over a child's growth they will see the world around them and slowly form opinions on what they like and don't like. In the nature versus nurture debate, I think appreciation of art falls in the nurture category.

    Earlier in this thread you said "reading is not the same as listening to speech. The first must be learned while the latter comes naturally." I would have to disagree with this. Again, an infant does not understand anything when they listen to speech, that is why an infant cries, they do not have the language to articulate what they need. Both reading and listening are learned, it just happens that infants learn to listen on their own, but usually need instruction when learning to read.

    Back to this latest point you made, I think much can be gained from looking at a piece of art or reading a piece of literature after first seeing it. There are many books I have re read and gained new appreciation for the second time around because in the second reading I am not distracted by the instant reactions I had the first time, and notice more hidden themes I didn't pick up on at first. The same definitely applies to a photograph or painting for me. The first time I see it I have an instant reaction to what it is, but often after going away and learning about the artist or the techniques used I can come back to it and find a deeper understanding of it after knowing the context which surrounds it.

  7. #97

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    I haven't been on the forum in a few days, and I enjoyed coming back to this thread and reading all which you folks have said. Photography, music, and philosophy are all passions of mine, so it has been a lot of fun reading how they are interconnected for all of you.

    Thanks guys!

  8. #98

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Yes

    Consider a ilfordchrome/Cibachrome print made from a Fujifilm Velva, no contrast mask, modern uber contrast "sharp" multi-coated view camera lens -vs- a ilfordchrome/Cibachrome print made from a Fujifilm Astia, as many contrast mask as needed to moderate print contrast, moderate single coated Kodak Ektar or similar view camera lens. What would the differences in two prints be and why would the response from the viewer be different?


    Bernice



    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan View Post
    I have to disagree with you on this I think.

    There definitely is an immediate reaction we have to a piece of art, however I would argue that is not innate. Not all learning is formal, I might even say most learning isn't formal. I don't think an infant would have an instant reaction to a piece of art as soon it opens it's eyes, rather over a child's growth they will see the world around them and slowly form opinions on what they like and don't like. In the nature versus nurture debate, I think appreciation of art falls in the nurture category.

    Earlier in this thread you said "reading is not the same as listening to speech. The first must be learned while the latter comes naturally." I would have to disagree with this. Again, an infant does not understand anything when they listen to speech, that is why an infant cries, they do not have the language to articulate what they need. Both reading and listening are learned, it just happens that infants learn to listen on their own, but usually need instruction when learning to read.

    Back to this latest point you made, I think much can be gained from looking at a piece of art or reading a piece of literature after first seeing it. There are many books I have re read and gained new appreciation for the second time around because in the second reading I am not distracted by the instant reactions I had the first time, and notice more hidden themes I didn't pick up on at first. The same definitely applies to a photograph or painting for me. The first time I see it I have an instant reaction to what it is, but often after going away and learning about the artist or the techniques used I can come back to it and find a deeper understanding of it after knowing the context which surrounds it.

  9. #99
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan View Post
    ...Earlier in this thread you said "reading is not the same as listening to speech. The first must be learned while the latter comes naturally." I would have to disagree with this. Again, an infant does not understand anything when they listen to speech, that is why an infant cries, they do not have the language to articulate what they need. ...
    Just an aside before I cook breakfast and get outside. Raising triplets gave me an interesting insight on language development (non-peer reviewed, and certainly anecdotal). I saw plenty examples of pre-verbal and verbal communication before they were able to 'speak'. How much their own 'language' was modeled on and/or mimicing what their parents were doing (speaking to them and to each other, reading books out loud, etc) before they were able to form English words is an interesting question. And they spent 8 weeks in intensive care after birth, so while in their incubators they had conversations going on around them and their mother there everyday for most of the day caring for them and talking to them -- but this was starting at 10 weeks before they were suppose to have been born. Too bad I was too busy with diapers, feedings, and such for those first couple of years to be just an observer!

    Ahhhh, but to finally be able to say 'use your words, not your mouth' (biting)!
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  10. #100

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Education or Indoctrination ?

    What does it mean to be "Educated" ?

    We begin to touch into the history and why of "Public Education" in America. It's reason for coming into being has little to do with Educating Students, the American "Education" system was originally designed and intended to convert folks living in an agriculture based way of life to operating the then growing industrial factory_zation of America and else where. Public "Education" was much about child-processing them into pegs to fit into the cogs of factory machinery for the vast benefit of the elite few. ~Indoctrination~

    Traditional Liberal Arts Education was intentionally limited to the elite few. Original Liberal Arts Education meant:
    ~Grammar, Rhetoric, Logic _ trivium.
    ~Geometry, Arithmetic, Music, Astronomy _ Quadrivium.

    They are ALL connected in identical ways music is inseparable to art (in this case photography).

    Science is the result or product of the Scientific Method.

    Practitioners of the Scientific Method face near identical difficulties as Artist, from struggling to find support for their work and endeavors to publications to getting others to understand what they are trying to share.. from their observations of Nature and the Human Condition.

    Richard Feynman noted Physicist was also an artist, he made drawings and painted.
    https://www.themarginalian.org/2013/...ches-drawings/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbFM3rn4ldo

    When the math was unable to provide a proper expression, Richard invented Feynman diagrams or "drew a picture"..
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/why-f...tant-20160705/

    Richard Feynman had a passion for playing the Bongos (music):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKTSaezB4p8


    Engineering is NOT Science, Engineering is much about the Monetization of Science.


    ~Music_Art and more are absolutely connected and inseparable... and Art has often been the heart, soul and identity of a Nation and Individuals in too many ways.



    Bernice

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