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Thread: Music as analogy for LF photography

  1. #31
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    I hear words from running water in my kitchen sink only

    Something new

  2. #32

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    I hear words from running water in my kitchen sink only

    Something new
    I’d have that looked at

  3. #33
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    I hear words from running water in my kitchen sink only

    Something new
    Or something old. There have been a few times I have been presented with loud, over-powering, random noise. In such cases my brain tries to interpret the randomness into reconizable patterns. It is a very interesting experience. Quite different from 'white noise', such as a waterfall. Solo backpacking in the Grand Canyon, I was off trail up a side canyon, camping by a small creek. The noise from the frogs was over-whelming and random enough that I heard, tires screeching, people yelling, horns honking, and all sorts of phantom noises (after all it was Phantom Canyon that I was in). I had no idea how I was to sleep that night, but they all went silent at dark. A more recent event, I was under a tree filled with starlings -- my brain tried to interpret the wall of noise as a bad pop music station.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  4. #34
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    I hear … a fair amount of jazz … while working the ground glass, I heard a particular Duke Ellington tune, it's been so long now I don't remember which one. I don't hear it when I look at the finished print, but only heard it when working the scene.
    While working the GG, were you visualizing a sepia-toned print?

    If yes, I’d say you were hearing his early tune, “Sepia Panorama.”

    Chances are you’d heard it before – it spent time as Duke’s theme song for his orchestra, back in the 1930s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    I actually asked the late great Oliver Sacks what it was. I thought it might be a version of synesthesia, but he disabused me of that notion. Still don't know the cause, but I thought it was great whenever it happened.
    Please tell us more!

    If you report what Dr. Sacks told you (I almost said diagnosed), LFers who “hear” landscapes not caused by synesthesia might better understand their experience.

    For example, the music they hear might be triggered by associative links we haven’t discussed yet.

  5. #35
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    Solo backpacking in the Grand Canyon, I was off trail up a side canyon, camping by a small creek. The noise from the frogs was over-whelming and random enough that I heard, tires screeching, people yelling, horns honking, and all sorts of phantom noises (after all it was Phantom Canyon that I was in).
    Yep, I totally get this. Often when I pitch my tent near a river whose strong current is moving sub-surface rocks so they knock and click against each other, I think I’m hearing human voices – like a group of people speaking a little too far away for their words to be intelligible. Quite unsettling. Especially when you’re alone at night in the middle of a wilderness. Helps me appreciate Native American myths about river spirits.

  6. #36
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Critters sometimes do speak. Beautiful woman, remote farm pond, one male Duck was 'dominating' every female duck, we sat and watched

    The woman was transcendent, no we did not, yet I was in lust

    Frogs can be very interesting, I was hiking solo in deep woods, came upon a puddle full of happy frogs

    We communed on some level for hours, fun!

    I have walked right into a rangale of deer at dusk about to bed, many times

    I just think about where I would sleep

  7. #37

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    The human and brains of other sentient beings is better understood then most would know today due to advances in:

    ~Technology, Functional MRI, Diffusion Tensor Imaging MRI, EEG, Brain chemistry analysis, Active neuron analysis and LOTs more. If you're curious about this and ok with admin to discuss, it can be done in great detail_as it is FAR off topic and not directly related to LFF, yet is directly related to LFF and much more.

    ~Study Methodology that follows many of the Scientific study protocols (how studies are created and why), statistical analysis and methodology, peer reviewed analysis before publication and these publications are still subject to critique by others.

    ~What must be understood, during Sigmund Freud's era and time, his theories and methodologies would never pass peer review today... and more than a few of Sigmund Freud's theories have been strongly dis-proven.

    ~Psychology and Psychiatry has changed LOTs since them "lay on the couch_Sigmund Freud_shrinkologist" analysis days.

    For one who toots of not being a neuroscientist, then toot the brain is poorly understood is NOT good at all.
    Before tooting synesthesia as being defined by your limited understanding, do some study and research into this specific topic of Academia.

    Facts and reality do not change minds, it is a evolutionary survival tool and it can be easily exploited in many, many, many ways.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...eviews-denial/

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Image "previsualization" comes up often in the world of view camera image making and other visual creative art forms. Previsualization is related to Intuition an how intuition works in the mind/brain. Based on current studies and research on this topic about 25% of the population is capable of intuitive thinking. It is also related to how an individual learns, watch this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=YH9Zn7Glf3E


    Bernice






    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    While the brain is still relatively poorly understood (and also, I’m not a neuroscientist), synesthesia is roughly understood as a neurological condition of crossed psychophysical responses to stimuli. For example, a sound wave may be interpreted by the brain as more than sound (auditory) but also responses normally associated with other stimuli. Perhaps visual responses such as colour or pattern or shape.

  8. #38

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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    For the Greek academics in the Classical period, "music" was much more than sound. Sonic music was a subset and a physical manifestation of the real music, which was the mathematical organization of the heavens: the Music of the Spheres. Furthermore, the "real" musicians at that time were not the performers, but the mathematicians who were exploring, explaining and better understanding the sonic world of overtones, scales, intervals and their numeric relationships. The monochord was a favorite experimental instrument used to explore the overtone series.

    So, in the broader sense of music as divine (or artistic) organization, I often have similar experiences when appreciating and comprehending things as dissimilar on the surface as Picasso's "Guernica" or David's "Oath of Horatio," Beethoven's "Emperor" piano concerto, a short story by Hermann Hesse or Steven Crane, and walking the length of St. Peter's in Rome; or even enjoying a well-prepared meal. The joy and elation in the recognition and understanding of the organization realized through the hard-wired and visceral human response to shapes, sounds, sights, smells and tastes, which are all tentacles of the same central processing hub, and the intellectual connections derived from societal content and reference, are at the heart of artistic experiences.

    There are, however, fundamental differences in artistic media that cannot be ignored, so we should be careful equating or conflating them. Literature and theater depend on language, which is processed much differently in the brain than the basic senses. Music, dance (and literature/theater/film) have a temporal organization that painting, architecture and sculpture do not. Sight and hearing are different pathways, even though those with synesthesia get those tentacles tangled up, and are processed different parts of the brain, etc.

    Still, the comprehension and grasp of the organization, logic and "meaning," if you will, of works of art in different media, and the associated emotional and intellectual responses, seem to me to come from a common, central and "deeper" place in our beings, despite the varied sensory pathways that are employed to perceive a given thing.

    In this sense, then, I can understand equating the organization of the shapes, tones and content in a photograph with the organization of a Bach fugue. Similarly, I can find parallels in musical virtuosity, skill in crafting a sentence and dexterity in wielding a hammer and chisel or brush.

    I am a trained classical musician; I hear music in my head (or being played) almost all my waking hours. Strangely, though, my mind is soundless when I am intently engaged photographing or printing. I cannot have music in my darkroom; it is too distracting. I can't listen passively; there's no such thing as "background music" for me (we all know how bad multitasking is). Nevertheless, my gut feeling when photographing is often quite comparable to that of performing. Likewise, my experiences listening, viewing, reading, etc. often seem very similar on an underlying level.

    Somewhere, down deep, there is a commonality. I think this is what people refer to when they profess to hear music in an image, and so forth. In this sense, so do I.

    Best,

    Doremus

  9. #39
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    ...Shapes, sounds, sights, smells and tastes, are all tentacles of the same central processing hub ... those with synesthesia get those tentacles tangled up.
    I’m beginning to feel like an octopus.

    Nonetheless, my tentacles wrap around and sense a splendid post, even if its discussion of music and the arts leans very heavily toward the Apollonian rational (and mimetic) side of classical Greek thought, and almost not at all toward its Dionysian irrational side (and sub-conscious side to use a more modern term). Your post is a fantastic discussion of the former which I think will help posters who are hearing music on their GG. Thank you!

    I hope you have time to elaborate on one surprising claim: namely, that painting, architecture, and sculpture (and presumably LF images) don’t have the temporal organization of the other arts. Are you saying, for example, that the rationally spaced columns of the Parthenon or the regular ripples in a sand dune or a pond have no temporal organization for the viewer? The photographer Namkung back in post #17 might disagree: “When I find [a composition], there always has to be a unifying, kinetic force. Which means the rhythm.” The temporal organization which I think exists both in music and photography is the associative link – I’d say the supreme one in my case – that causes one to evoke the other, whether or not synesthesia plays a role.

  10. #40
    Joe O'Hara's Avatar
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    Re: Music as analogy for LF photography

    Doremus said: "...my mind is soundless when I am intently engaged photographing or printing. I cannot have music in my darkroom; it is too distracting. I can't listen passively; there's no such thing as "background music" for me..."

    Exactly the same here. For me music is to be listened to, actively, not bathed in. I am listening to the ambient sounds though when I photograph, and noticing the smells and the way the ground feels. I often do best when my conscious mind seemingly shuts down but the sensory channels are all open.

    Music happens in time. To a great extent, it depends on our memory while we are listening to recognize musical ideas recurring, changing, often simultaneously (the final bars of Mozart's Symphony No. 41 in C Major K. 551 are a mind-blowing example of this). Photographs in contrast freeze time: We select one instant, and one arrangement of subject matter, and that becomes the picture. We can then examine it later for as long as we like, but the image doesn't change. It is all there on the paper, right now. We decide what parts of the image to fix on, and in which order. It is not that way with music. The composer is driving.

    I can't imagine two art forms more different, but that may be just me.
    Where are we going?
    And why are we in this handbasket?


    www.josephoharaphotography.com

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