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Thread: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

  1. #11

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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Hi Paul,

    I have made a few salt prints using the negatives I've developed specifically for palladium printing. For salt printing, Terry King has mentioned a density of 1.8-2.0. I target 1.4 for palladium and can make a beautiful pd print from a negative like that. I believe the higher density range required for salt is due to the self-masking while the image prints out.

    I use FP4 rated at 64, and develop in D76 straight. For a normal contrast scene my time at 68* is 16 minutes. N+1 = 22.5 minutes. N-1 = 11.25 minutes. I know I can get to 2.0 with the D76 straight because I've done it accidentally while working out my development times.

    I hope this helps! Regards, Rob
    Last edited by robshepherd; 2-Dec-2021 at 10:57. Reason: Corrected a typo

  2. #12

    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    FP4+ in Pyrocat HD works wonders for my negatives to be printed on salted paper. Paper also comes into the picture more than it does with any other process I use. I use Fox-Talbot's original notes as to paper, salt formula, etc.
    Thanks for that Jim. I'm currently using the recipes/process as outlined in Quinn Jacobson's 2019 edition of Chemical Pictures, and it seems to work quite well. Where can I see Fox-Talbot's original writings on the subject?

    This morning I printed a home made dry plate negative from last July, made with the Foma Liquid Emulsion. It seems to be an excellent match for salt printing, in regard to contrast. This is a 5x7 glass neg, contact printed on 8x10 Bergger Cot 160:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here it is cropped closer:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #13

    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Quote Originally Posted by robshepherd View Post
    Hi Paul,

    I have made a few salt prints using the negatives I've developed specifically for palladium printing. For salt printing, Terry King has mentioned a density of 1.8-2.0. I target 1.4 for palladium and can make a beautiful pd print from a negative like that. I believe the higher density range required for salt is due to the self-masking while the image prints out.

    I use FP4 rated at 64, and develop in D76 straight. For a normal contrast scene my time at 68* is 16 minutes. N+1 = 22.5 minutes. N-1 = 11.25 minutes. I know I can get to 2.0 with the D76 straight because I've done it accidentally while working out my development times.

    I hope this helps! Regards, Rob
    Thanks for the suggestions, Rob, much appreciated. It appears that what you're describing is close to what I am doing now, with the exception of the choice of developers ( I will try D-76 as well, but Pyrocat HD seems to work beautifully too)
    I suspect you mean Sandy King, no?

  4. #14

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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Hi Paul! Terry King writes about salt prints in John Barnier's Coming into Focus published in 2000. Sandy King is in the book too with an article on carbon printing.

    As for developer, so many will work of course. I started using it because Dick Arentz published a very comprehensive chart for D76 and FP4 and it seemed like a good idea to use his numbers as a starting point. I'm glad I did!

    Regards, Rob

  5. #15

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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Noel View Post
    FP4+ in Pyrocat HD works wonders for my negatives to be printed on salted paper.
    I just started salt print testing a couple of weeks ago but so far FP4+ negatives developed in Pyrocat-M that normally print on VC Grades 1.5-2 seem to have enough contrast for salt prints. Those that require grade 3+ do not work very well. The main difference I see is the very matte image seems to have more open shadows or not fully black/brown. If you have a step wedge copy it and process with developer of choice with Normal and N+ times and test with those. That should give you an idea if you need to expand or not.
    Adventure is worthwhile in itself. ... Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done. -- Amelia Earhart
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  6. #16
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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Hi Paul
    Azo is silver chloride paper, kind of /sort of like salt prints. If you have processed negatives for Azo, Lodima or Lupex papers you might see if they are close to the right magic to make your prints.
    Those dry plates look like beautiful!
    Good Luck!
    John
    enjoy your coffee

  7. #17

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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Please see the attached link below. The recommended film and developer combination is Ilford FP4+ and PMK Pyro.
    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/15614798.pdf

    Gary Samson

  8. #18
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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Thanks Gary!

    I knew of this treatise, but wasn't ready back then



    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Samson View Post
    Please see the attached link below. The recommended film and developer combination is Ilford FP4+ and PMK Pyro.
    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/15614798.pdf

    Gary Samson

  9. #19

    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    Hi Paul
    Azo is silver chloride paper, kind of /sort of like salt prints. If you have processed negatives for Azo, Lodima or Lupex papers you might see if they are close to the right magic to make your prints.
    Those dry plates look like beautiful!
    Good Luck!
    John
    Hi John.
    No, I have not produced negatives for Azo type prints before. That's unfamiliar territory, but I appreciate the reference point!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Samson View Post
    Please see the attached link below. The recommended film and developer combination is Ilford FP4+ and PMK Pyro.
    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/15614798.pdf

    Gary Samson
    Thank you Gary, I'll study that document. I am sure it will be most helpful. I note that there are several references to using FP4 (one of my favorites) with either PMK or Pyrocat HD, so it appears that many people have come to the same relative conclusions about crafting a negative for salt printing. I appreciate the link, thanks.

  10. #20
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    Re: in-camera negatives for Salt Printing?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbarden View Post
    Hi John.
    No, I have not produced negatives for Azo type prints before. That's unfamiliar territory, but I appreciate the reference point!



    Thank you Gary, I'll study that document. I am sure it will be most helpful. I note that there are several references to using FP4 (one of my favorites) with either PMK or Pyrocat HD, so it appears that many people have come to the same relative conclusions about crafting a negative for salt printing. I appreciate the link, thanks.
    hi again Paul
    I searched around for you for densitometry readings ( if you like that sort of thing ) and pyro info
    sandy king's site had some information specifically about pyro and azo ...
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/...ing-developers
    as I said its the the same as salt prints but like a 1st cousin once removed so it might give you a starting point ..
    at least for densitometry readings if nothing else.
    good luck!
    John
    Last edited by jnantz; 5-Dec-2021 at 05:18.
    enjoy your coffee

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