Fujinon 180mm. f/9 - Curious about some specs.

[xkaes]

Hi xkaes,

It looks like a jewel of a lens! By the given measures, it is a super compact lens.
It would fold up nicely in any field camera, I think.

Ig

It's small size is its major strength, and for certain purposes like backpacking and portraiture, some people may prefer it -- others not. The Fujinon 150mm f5.6 (6/4 & 6/6) models have more resolution at a greater size and weight.

[Greg]

But I'd like to go real micro before it's too late.

Keep your eyes open for acquiring a Nikon Multiphot. Every now and then one shows up for a bargain price. Shipping is usually the deal breaker, the whole system is a bit bulky to easily pack and ship, so most sellers add in the "for local pickup only" stipulation. But if one takes the system apart and ships in maybe three or four separate boxes the shipping costs become reasonable. Problem with the 180mm F/9 Fuji is that it requires a lot of bellows extensions for photomacrography. I remember once using the 180 FUJI lens in the field with two 18" Sinar rails. I had only one tripod with one head with me and the whole camera never seemed to stop vibrating. For me the 120 f/6.3 Micro Nikkor is the longest lens to practically use for photomacrography in the field.

[xkaes]

For me the 120 f/6.3 Micro Nikkor is the longest lens to practically use for photomacrography in the field.

There are lots of 100mm bellows lenses -- usually around f4 -- that are perfect for field use. And my Rokkor 50mm f3.5 Macro Bellows is nice and bright at high magnification.

[Sal Santamaura]

...Looking at a longer lens like the Sironar-N 180mm., f/5.6, do you think one could fold it
up in a field camera like any of the Horsemans H cameras, or the Toyo Fields,
or the Linhof Technikas, to name some?...

I have no experience with Toyo or Linhof, so can't say for sure, but recall reading that Technikas will close with lenses up to 58mm front cell diameter. Perhaps Bob S. can confirm or refute that.

Horseman metal folding cameras (VH/VH-R, FA, HD) will close with lenses having front cell diameters no larger than 43mm.

[Bob Salomon]

I have no experience with Toyo or Linhof, so can't say for sure, but recall reading that Technikas will close with lenses up to 58mm front cell diameter. Perhaps Bob S. can confirm or refute that.

Horseman metal folding cameras (VH/VH-R, FA, HD) will close with lenses having front cell diameters no larger than 43mm.

The lens is too long.

[Drew Wiley]

Hi Greg and xkaes. It's interesting how many classic old macro/micro accessories like Multiphot and 4X5 Polaroid holders for Zeiss trinocular microscopes (convertible to standard sheet film) have actually become scarce and shot up in price in recent years. Of course, I could rig up a Nikon or even 6X7; but if it were just a long bellows method, I'd want to do it Sinar-wise, either 4x5 or 8x10 format. Of course, that would take a lot of exposure lumens, but that's no big deal either. Maybe somebody will want to start an actual LF micro/macro thread someday.

I'd rate the Fuji A's as most appropriate up to about 1:2, but usable for 1:1. But if the hard work is done using film with large surface area to begin with, then far less magnification is needed when printing it large. I'm not referring to subject like amoeba or flagellates, but more like semi-transparent vegetation or rock sections, which neither move around nor require extreme magnification. Really tiny things I just want to enjoy watching again, and live, not so much for photographic purposes.

[Bernice Loui]

Plenty of chat about macro-micro lenses. Lenses are the easy part, camera, camera set up (tripod and all related) and lighting are the difficult part of macro-micro photography.

As for the lens folding up in camera, it is likely a habit-idea grown from fixed lens box camera usage carried over to this view camera stuff. Mostly should never apply as this view camera stuff is just SO different from that fixed lens box camera stuff.


Bernice

[helios]

Helios - at f/22 loss of sharpness is ZILCH with the 180. If you were running out of rise, stopping down even further to f/32 would have improved the resolution of the nether region of the usable image circle, not diminished it. It's a full 80 degree lens at f/22, and covers even more at f/32, but is obviously not a substitute for a wide-angle design when that it realistically called for. I cannot retrieve the image you linked; but there must have been some other factor involved. The odds of getting a defective modern Fuji lens is awfully low, unless someone fiddled with it before re-selling it to you. Make sure both front and rear elements are screwed in all the way.

Also potentially relevant to this conversation is how a number of forum members just automatically assume that black and white performance is only what is in question, because that's all they do. And that fact sometimes weeds out certain older lenses which were not ideally color corrected, if color applications are in mind.
Lenses like Fuji A's, Nikkor M's, and probably all post-60's general-purpose plasmats and airspaced dialytes, tend to be excellent with color, though some are slightly better than others.

Attaching some snapshots for illustration - hope even compression will allow to see what I mean. Center of the image (clock) is OK, and gradual resolution degradation towards the top. As I wrote, I will try at smaller apertures, though it is the only lens I have that shows such drastic resolution loss towards the edge at declared working aperture. This has nothing to do with wide angle design substitute - this is regular scenario requiring a movement even if significant, but well within declared coverage.

Also I am not sure I understand the point about BW vs Color. Resolution won’t get better regardless if BW or Color, won’t it? I am not only doing BW, so not sure what is that “potential relevance” thing is about.

Again, I am not saying Fuji A 180mm is bad, but interested to know if anyone who used it at full coverage experienced similar degradation.

[Ig Nacio]

Hi,

Thank you for your messages : )!!!

If I am understanding Sal and Bob right, a lens, like the Sironar-N 180mm., (f/5.6), whose overall length is 57mm. will not fit into any field camera because it is too long.

The Fuji 180mm. f/9 A is 45mm. in length.

What is the longest length a field camera may accept?

Can some lenses be turned around and then folded up
inside the camera?

Thank you, kind regards!

[Bob Salomon]

Hi,

Thank you for your messages : )!!!

If I am understanding Sal and Bob right, a lens, like the Sironar-N 180mm., (f/5.6), whose overall length is 57mm. will not fit into any field camera because it is too long.

The Fuji 180mm. f/9 A is 45mm. in length.

What is the longest length a field camera may accept?

Can some lenses be turned around and then folded up
inside the camera?

Thank you, kind regards!

Why do that? It is easier, and faster, to carry them separately and then just mount the lens on the camera. It’s a snap in procedure.
Why would you want to open the camera, remove a reversed lens, turn it around and remount it. Then reverse this to close the camera. It’s a lot of extra steps, a lot of steps, a great chance to drop the lens with all those extra steps. Especially in the field.