Cameras with geared swing movement

[helios]

I am a happy user of Chamonix F2, however, in architecture genre both front and possibly even more so rear swings are important. Rear swing on F2 is awkward. It requires two hands and is kind of unstable as once locks are released rear standard moves not only around vertical axis, but also slides freely in forward and backward direction. It’s not that it’s unusable, but I feel I would appreciate more precise, less fiddly solution.

Are there any cameras out there that are not in heavy monorails league but have geared swing movements? I was thinking of Arca Swiss F-line as “wet dream” sort of option, but it appears to have manual swing control too.

Thank you.

[rfesk]

The swing of Toyo VX125 is not geared but it surely is easy to use and does not interfere with the geared shift.

[helios]

The swing of Toyo VX125 is not geared but it surely is easy to use and does not interfere with the geared shift.

Thank you, will check it out.

[Bob Salomon]

I am a happy user of Chamonix F2, however, in architecture genre both front and possibly even more so rear swings are important. Rear swing on F2 is awkward. It requires two hands and is kind of unstable as once locks are released rear standard moves not only around vertical axis, but also slides freely in forward and backward direction. It’s not that it’s unusable, but I feel I would appreciate more precise, less fiddly solution.

Are there any cameras out there that are not in heavy monorails league but have geared swing movements? I was thinking of Arca Swiss F-line as “wet dream” sort of option, but it appears to have manual swing control too.

Thank you.

No, more gearing man’s more weight.
A LInhof TK 45S will do everything you want, and then more, but with no geared movements othe then focus.

[Ari]

Some Wista models have micro-swing on the rear, but they are limited in their use as architectural cameras.
I'm afraid Bob's right: more gears is more weight.

[Bernice Loui]

On the Chamonix F2, looks like the two lock down knobs are loosened allowing swing of camera's rear frame ?
https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras/45f2

How might controlling the swing movement relative to the center of the rear frame be achieved? Seems loosening both lock knobs
allows the rear frame to slide forwards-backwards in a non-controlled manner causing difficulty achieving precise centered rear swing movement.

This the problem?
What is the lens focal length being used with rear swing?

Not convinced geared movements are the answer, and monorail cameras are NOT that much heavier than light weight field folders. As previously discussed and mentioned many times before, camera choice is a LOT more complex than what it is current view camera fashion.


Bernice

[helios]

On the Chamonix F2, looks like the two lock down knobs are loosened allowing swing of camera's rear frame ?
https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras/45f2

How might controlling the swing movement relative to the center of the rear frame be achieved? Seems loosening both lock knobs
allows the rear frame to slide forwards-backwards in a non-controlled manner causing difficulty achieving precise centered rear swing movement.

This the problem?
What is the lens focal length being used with rear swing?

Not convinced geared movements are the answer, and monorail cameras are NOT that much heavier than light weight field folders. As previously discussed and mentioned many times before, camera choice is a LOT more complex than what it is current view camera fashion.


Bernice

Yes, that is precisely the problem - loosening both knobs allows too much freedom of rear standard movement. In a way it does allow rotation around the center of rear frame because both knobs are locked in slides in a way that no horizontal shift is possible. But that forward-backward movement freedom is just awkward. I kind of got used to it and developed some technique on handling it, so as I said it’s not like it’s not usable, just too loose and fiddly. Also realigning the rear standard back to zero position is awkward too, but that’s minor thing.

It’s similar on front swing where there is only one knob, loosening it allows combination of swing and shift movements.

It is largely the same problem as with rise/tilt issue on Chamonix F1 which was improved on F2 by adding dedicated knobs for those movements.

I am using and noticing this problem with any lens whenever swing is needed, but mostly using 90mm, 110mm and 180mm for architecture.

[Bernice Loui]

Would never tolerate any view camera with movement controls like this. Too much frustration, too much futzing around with the camera to achieve what is needed and more. Does this camera achieve rear swing movements, yes with plenty of unnecessary futzing and frustration and more..

This is the reality of light weight field folders and their innate trade-offs to achieve compact, light weight and foldable. IMO, for the majority of outdoor landscape images made at some what infinity focus and often never demanding on camera movements with the need for back packing lightweight, compact portability this camera could be near ideal. Press this same camera into image goals of combined camera movements with the need for precision/accuracy/repeatability and all those non outdoor landscape image goal needs, this same camera is not ideal at all.

Sinar example using Norma, F, P2 which has geared movements.


Sinar Norma has separate swing, shift locks allowing independent control of swing and/or shift movements identical on front and rear standards.
It is common to need a slight shift in the image to reposition the image to meet the initial image composition goals. This is not gonna happen on any camera without shift on the rear standard... and moving the camera position does not achieve the same as applying rear shift camera movement.


Sinar F has a single locking lever that controls swing and shift combined. This works surprisingly good.


Sinar P2, swing, shift, rise-fall, tilt are geared. Works GOOD. Heavy, bulky and all that. In studio weight and all that is an asset with no significant negatives.
Outdoors, no were near ideal at all.



Sinar P2 and P(has swing/tilt shift control knob) in less than mobile image needs is an absolute pleasure to use in every way. Setting camera movements as needed is easy, precise, quick and very stable once set. Yet the Norma & F without geared movements is not a lot slower or difficult. What makes the majority of this difference is the center point of the standard frame starts at center with marks or spring detent and the movements are applied at this center point. Make swing movement, the center line of the frame stays put. This is why swing camera movements are essentially easy effort. Sinar is not the only monorail camera to have swing movements like this.

Given the lens focal length set of 90mm. 110mm, 180mm better to use a bag bellows to allow full use of their available image circle. Any camera with a tapered bellows will be limiting in ways that will become apparent once camera movements are pressed to the limits of the lens image circle... and bag bellows tend to have better flare light control from the larger than needed lens image circle.



Bernice

Yes, that is precisely the problem - loosening both knobs allows too much freedom of rear standard movement. In a way it does allow rotation around the center of rear frame because both knobs are locked in slides in a way that no horizontal shift is possible. But that forward-backward movement freedom is just awkward. I kind of got used to it and developed some technique on handling it, so as I said it’s not like it’s not usable, just too loose and fiddly. Also realigning the rear standard back to zero position is awkward too, but that’s minor thing.

It’s similar on front swing where there is only one knob, loosening it allows combination of swing and shift movements.

It is largely the same problem as with rise/tilt issue on Chamonix F1 which was improved on F2 by adding dedicated knobs for those movements.

I am using and noticing this problem with any lens whenever swing is needed, but mostly using 90mm, 110mm and 180mm for architecture.

[GG12]

This is the reality of light weight field folders and their innate trade-offs to achieve compact, light weight and foldable. IMO, for the majority of outdoor landscape images made at some what infinity focus and often never demanding on camera movements with the need for back packing lightweight, compact portability this camera could be near ideal. Press this same camera into image goals of combined camera movements with the need for precision/accuracy/repeatability and all those non outdoor landscape image goal needs, this same camera is not ideal at all.

Excellent point, well said. I am going to keep rereading this every time I get frustrated with the camera at hand.

[LabRat]

I'm not crazy about geared swings/tilts... I like to be able to flick them in/out to see the effect I'm getting... In the studio or field alike...

Steve K