Should Kodak/Fuji rethink color sheet film for room temp processing?

[Drew Wiley]

Fuji gradually withdrawing from the game makes the success of Kodak continuing to provide color film more optimistic. What you have to remember is that if the so-called market share percent of film is much less than what it once was, the world population is also much greater now. And within that, there are plenty of people with a lot of money. Sheet film is a sub-niche. Who knows? Catastrophic climate change is just around the corner and already making its presence known; a World War could be triggered by that, or by a major depression, or all kinds of things. An asteroid impact on Rochester wouldn't help. Can't worry about everything. Life is too short. Keep shooting.

[reddesert]

Disclaimer: I don't process color film at home, but I have thought about it recently, which I never did before. IMO, it would be cheaper and probably more cost effective for Kodak to bundle a $30 sous-vide temperature controller and a $10 basin (tempering bath) into a home C-41 kit, than to try to re-engineer C-41 into a room temperature process. They could probably give every one of 100,000 hobbyists in the country (if there are that many) a free temperature control kit for much less than it would cost to develop a new chemical process.

That comment was a little facetious, but IMO if there is an opportunity in color processing, it would be for someone to develop an inexpensive Jobo-like temperature controlled processor using 2020s technology (cheap temperature control, 3d-printing prototypes, etc). I know there are a couple of hobby efforts in this area. If there is a market, it would be a lot easier to make ersatz Jobos than create a new film process.

[Sal Santamaura]

...Fuji now doesn't make any b&w film themselves anymore...

Unless you have insider information and are likely violating an NDA, you don't know that.

Either Fujifilm subcontracts the entire coating and finishing process of ACROS II to HARMAN, or it coats master rolls itself and ships them to HARMAN for finishing. We cannot say for sure which is the case.

[Bernice Loui]

What is your time worth?

What are the cost of chemistry, processing related hardware, what if something goes really wrong with your processing and ...

These are the hidden cost to doing any image making, yet very real and must be considered in the overall cost to do any project.

FYI, back in the days of sheet film color transparency centric commercial image making, there were more than a few clients that had a E6 lab processing bill exceeding $8K per month at The New Lab.

All relative and much more to consider than just the superficial cost of film processing.


Bernice

using Underdog Lab [bay area] would cost over $8K to process part of a current project.
as to internegs: holding more than 2 point AIM means altering the developer. A push/pull can hold limited AIM.

the reason for some to process their own should be clear. Most of those current to LargeFormatForum shootin color have it sent out because they don't have enough volume.

this is a different problem; one which Tetenal could solve for the casual or low volume user. Small kits.

[tykos]

Unless you have insider information and are likely violating an NDA, you don't know that.

Either Fujifilm subcontracts the entire coating and finishing process of ACROS II to HARMAN, or it coats master rolls itself and ships them to HARMAN for finishing. We cannot say for sure which is the case.

well, coating in house and shipping all over the world those delicate master rolls in a controlled environment would be feasible only to justify the line "well guys, film production costs waaaaaaaay too much" in the next year's budget.
Especially because fuji already has the packaging line for the other films, and the finishing is the easy part of the process.
We don't know what's going on, but that move seems unlikely.

[Sal Santamaura]

well, coating in house and shipping all over the world those delicate master rolls in a controlled environment would be feasible only to justify the line "well guys, film production costs waaaaaaaay too much" in the next year's budget...

I have no idea what the point of that statement is. Master rolls, contained in the robust "caskets" used for storage, can be shipped just as easily as anything else in today's transportation environment.

...fuji already has the packaging line for the other films, and the finishing is the easy part of the process.
We don't know what's going on, but that move seems unlikely.

Finishing ("confectioning") of master rolls is currently one of the major choke points in film production. It might seem "easy" to you, but that doesn't mean every manufacturer has maintained sufficient capacity to do enough of it as demand, especially demand for 35mm, increases over its nadir of the recent past.

Again, unless you have insider information and are probably violating an NDA, neither ACROS II / HARMAN scenario is less likely than the other.

[Wayne]

If a less perfect color film is all you need just develop it at the recommended temp as best as you can. If you can't maintain the temperature, you'll get less than perfect.

But maintaining it isn't that hard, plenty of people who are even dumber than me do it.

[Drew Wiley]

Per ACROS II (hypothetical). There have been cases in the past where an emulsion itself has been batched in one country by the primary manufacturer, and then shipped liquid fashion to a subcontracted coating facility elsewhere. I heard a rumor that this was the case with ACROS, but don't know the hard facts. I'm still shooting the previous version of Acros.

[tykos]

I have no idea what the point of that statement is. Master rolls, contained in the robust "caskets" used for storage, can be shipped just as easily as anything else in today's transportation environment.

i'm not saying it is an impossible task, everything can be done (almost) easily these days, just that it is a really pricey one in a market with tight margins.

Again, unless you have insider information and are probably violating an NDA, neither ACROS II / HARMAN scenario is less likely than the other.

well, if one should only talk about things not covered by and nda i think we could delete half the internet webpages and their speculations, this forum included.

[tykos]

Per ACROS II (hypothetical). There have been cases in the past where an emulsion itself has been batched in one country by the primary manufacturer, and then shipped liquid fashion to a subcontracted coating facility elsewhere. I heard a rumor that this was the case with ACROS, but don't know the hard facts. I'm still shooting the previous version of Acros.

i've heard of that, and it seems easier and more feasible than shipping master rolls. Just think of the quantity of emulsion (some microns) and its weight vs. base+canister volume and weight in a roll.