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Thread: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

  1. #1

    Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    I had my first LF shot last week with a Toyo Field 45A and it was great.

    I had a problem though making front swings because unlike my Linhof Technika IV the Toyo has the same lock for the front standard draw and swing. The Toyo 45A manual says "...the pawls of the infinity stops must be folded down to clear the front standard in this operation." I understand this instruction because if you don't fold down the infinity stop pawls the front standard will effectively draw back when you make swing adjustments - hence losing infinity focus. However, I'll also lose infinity focus when I make front swings with the infinity stop pawls folded down because unlocking the front standard (when making swings) will also shift the unlocked front standard forward or back along the bed.

    Is this an inherent problem with the Toyo 45A? Am I doing it wrong? Is there a workaround?

    Sharing below my first LF picture. I applied front swing, disabled the infinity stops, and just used the bed reference scale to approximate infinity focus for the lens.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fullerton16Oct21-LFPF.jpg 
Views:	106 
Size:	140.8 KB 
ID:	220569

    Toyo 45A-II field camera, 4x5 large format, Nikkor-SW 75mm f/4.5
    6-Stop ND filter, 2mins-3-secs exposure, f/64
    Shanghai GP3, B&W film, ASA100
    Developed in Ilford DD-X
    Scanned with Epson V800
    Post-processed in Lightroom Classic
    Last edited by Rene Limjoco; 21-Oct-2021 at 07:11. Reason: Updated link to image

  2. #2
    Studio Madbird
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    48

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    I have a 45a, but I don’t think it has any stops (now I’ll have to go look…) since the toyo doesn’t have a rangefinder wouldn’t infinity stops be more of a ‘serving suggestion’ even with the scale? And once you start introducing movements focus adjustments via the bed are kind of mandatory I would think. Very nice shot by the way, great tones and contrast!

  3. #3

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinografx View Post
    I have a 45a, but I don’t think it has any stops (now I’ll have to go look…) since the toyo doesn’t have a rangefinder wouldn’t infinity stops be more of a ‘serving suggestion’ even with the scale? And once you start introducing movements focus adjustments via the bed are kind of mandatory I would think. Very nice shot by the way, great tones and contrast!
    Thanks. The intent for the Shanghai GP3 film is to use a relatively cheap film for 1st test shots. I just followed the reciprocity and development times for Ilford FP4 and it turned out fine. With regards to the infinity stops my understanding is it ensures the lens position on the rack will focus to infinity. I believe the bed scale is considered "close enough"? I'll be trying out the Linhof Technika IV next. It has separate locks for shift and front standard draw but I like the Toyo back swing and tilt design better.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    88

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    I also have a 45A-II and as Kinografx says the stops are there for a quick reference and they are user settable. You have to determine where they are set if you want to use them, I don't. And just as Kinografx says, checking and adjusting focus after making movements is best practice.

  5. #5

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Rycroft View Post
    I also have a 45A-II and as Kinografx says the stops are there for a quick reference and they are user settable. You have to determine where they are set if you want to use them, I don't. And just as Kinografx says, checking and adjusting focus after making movements is best practice.
    Thanks Rick. I took the camera out again yesterday and I'm getting used to it. I only plan to use this for landscapes with either a 90mm or 75mm lens. There's only 1 set of infinity stops and I can't seem to find any available online and in ebay.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,962

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Limjoco View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fullerton16Oct21-LFPF.jpg 
Views:	106 
Size:	140.8 KB 
ID:	220569

    Toyo 45A-II field camera, 4x5 large format, Nikkor-SW 75mm f/4.5
    6-Stop ND filter, 2mins-3-secs exposure, f/64
    Shanghai GP3, B&W film, ASA100
    Hi Rene,

    It's unrelated to the issue that you raise, but I have a couple of technical questions about your handsome photograph of Singapore's Fullerton Hotel. How far, very roughly, was the camera from the wall along the river? What was the reason to use a 6-stop neutral density filter to get from f/8 to f/64?


    Thanks
    Last edited by r.e.; 24-Oct-2021 at 03:13.

  7. #7

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by r.e. View Post
    Hi Rene,

    It's unrelated to the issue that you raise, but I have a couple of technical questions about your handsome photograph of Singapore's Fullerton Hotel. How far, very roughly, was the camera from the wall along the river? What was the reason to use a 6-stop neutral density filter to get from f/8 to f/64?


    Thanks
    I use the PhotoPills app to plan my shoots and make it easier to find my initial vantage point. According to the app the distance from the wall (front of the hotel) is around 150 meters. The reason I use a 6-stop ND is to have a longer exposure to freeze the water and achieve the "glassy" look.

  8. #8
    Arca-Swiss
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
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    212

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    A standard lens for large format(135mm and longer) should, except in rare occasions always be stopped down at least 2 stops to allow the corners to be similar to center for sharpness. Wide angle lenses, having more curvature of field, need 3 stops down from wide open, if intentions are for everything being sharp.

    The Toyo front swing issue is something I battled with Toyo about, for many years when I worked in stores and taught LF photography. But they never listened.

    Rod
    Last edited by Rod Klukas; 18-Nov-2021 at 14:46.
    Rod Klukas
    US Representative
    Arca-Swiss International
    480-755-3364


    Digital Camera Solutions including R-series Technical Cameras, Large Format View Cameras and Ballheads. 480-755-3364

  9. #9

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Klukas View Post
    A standard lens for large format(135mm and longer) should, except in rare occasions always be stopped down at least 2 stops to allow the corners to be similar to center for sharpness. Wide angle lenses, having more curvature of field, need 3 stops down from wide open, if intentions are for everything being sharp.

    The Toyo front swing issue is something I battled with Toy about for many years when I worked in stores and taught LF photography. But they never listened.

    Rod
    Thanks Rod. I really like the Toyo45 build quality. I feel the rear swing and tilt design is better than the more expensive Linhof Technika. I don't understand why they wouldn't have a separate lock for swing for swing and front standard draw. I'm looking for a service or repair manual to explore ways to DIY separate the locks.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,715

    Re: Toyo 45A Front Swing Movement

    Perceived build quality is of much lesser value if the design does not serve the needs of the image maker's image goals.

    IMO, better to switch to a camera that serves your image making needs instead of trying to alter a design that has innate problems.. as there are plenty of other view cameras that will serve your needs better than the Toyo 45A. Loyalty can cause myopia and other problems with the passage of time and demands placed on this Toyo 45A. Keep in mind, view camera images is much less about the camera and more about the image maker-artists tools that serve these needs properly with no significant limitations.


    Bernice

    [QUOTE=Rene Limjoco;1621243
    I really like the Toyo45 build quality. I feel the rear swing and tilt design is better than the more expensive Linhof Technika. I don't understand why they wouldn't have a separate lock for swing for swing and front standard draw. I'm looking for a service or repair manual to explore ways to DIY separate the locks.

    [/QUOTE]

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