Wide Lenses for 4x5 & 8x10: 90mm to 165mm

[r.e.]

Further to post #84, I started this thread: Using a Neutral Density Filter a Rear Lens Element

There's some good discussion about the issues raised by mounting filters on the Schneider Super-Symmar XL 150mm rear lens element, as well as about various ways of doing it.

[r.e.]

Further to the thread linked in the post just above...

I've made a decision, at least for the time being, about filters for Schneider's Super-Symmar XL f/5.6 150mm when used with its IVa centre filter.

Note that the centre filter requires the lens to be used at f/11 or smaller, and comes with a loss of about 1.5 stops of light.

Polariser, 112mm screw-in

I would much rather add a 112mm polariser to the centre filter than spend time trying to get the rotation right on a 62mm polariser screwed onto the lens's rear element. Indeed, I see a 112mm diameter as a benefit. I can use my hand to hold up a filter that large in front of my eyes and easily see how rotation is affecting the image. Normally, I use B+W and Heliopan screw-in filters, but neither makes a 112mm polariser. Consequently, I've chosen NiSi's Natural Polariser, which appears to be well-regarded.

Neutral Density, 112mm screw-in

Very few companies currently make 112mm ND filters. With one exception, those that do offer very limited selection in terms of strength. Japan's Tokina makes a line of prime and zoom cinema lenses that have 112mm filter threads. It makes its Cinema Pro IRND filters in 112mm, eight strengths, for these lenses*. IRND means that the filters cut infrared as well as visible light, which has become more or less standard in digital filmmaking. Yesterday, I acquired two of the Tokina filters, which will serve my needs for the time being.

Rationale

I'm satisfied that adding filters to the front of the lens is preferable, from both ease of use and optical perspectives, to adding them to the rear element. My decision was made easier by the fact that I've been able to acquire the three filters at prices that make them affordable, which means that I should be able to sell them eventually without losing a meaningful amount of money.

I have a Nikkor W f/6.5 360mm lens that also made the decision easier. This lens has a 95mm filter thread. I think that a step-up ring to the 112mm filters may be more convenient in some cases than using my Lee100 system.

Follow-up

I plan to speak with S.K. Grimes after the holidays about how I might be able to use Lee's SW150 System graduated neutral density filters. I also plan to ask Lee whether it sees a problem if I have S.K. Grimes make a 112mm adapter for its SW150 holder. Lee's own largest adapter is 105mm.

If B+W responds to my query about the thickness of the glass on its XS-Pro line of filters (see post #25 of the thread linked above), I'll post what it says.

I think that the ideas in the thread linked above are of on-going interest because they offer ways to address vignetting from stacking filters.


* Tokina also makes its Cinema Pro IRND filters in five other other diameters, as well as in 4"x5.65" and 6.6"x6.6" for matte boxes. Tokina owns Formatt-Hitech, but my understanding is that the Cinema Pro filters are made in Japan rather than in the U.K.

[rdenney]

I haven't had any trouble using a polarizer (and any filter!) on the rear of my Mamiya 37mm fisheye -- that's the only place I can put filters. Haven't had any problem with focus shift either.

Don’t know about the Mamiya, but the Ukrainian Arsat 30mm fisheye for the Pentacon Six mount uses a 30mm rear filter. But the filter is part of the optical formula and required. It comes with a UV-Haze filter mounted and three colored filters.

Given its 180-degree field of view, a front filter would have to be hemispheric.

Rick “suspecting a typical approximately symmetrical large-format lens won’t much care which end the filter is mounted to ” Denney

[Alan Klein]

Further to the thread linked in the post just above...

I've made a decision, at least for the time being, about filters for Schneider's Super-Symmar XL f/5.6 150mm when used with its IVa centre filter.

Note that the centre filter requires the lens to be used at f/11 or smaller, and comes with a loss of about 1.5 stops of light.

Polariser, 112mm screw-in

I would much rather add a 112mm polariser to the centre filter than spend time trying to get the rotation right on a 62mm polariser screwed onto the lens's rear element. Indeed, I see a 112mm diameter as a benefit. I can use my hand to hold up a filter that large in front of my eyes and easily see how rotation is affecting the image. Normally, I use B+W and Heliopan screw-in filters, but neither makes a 112mm polariser. Consequently, I've chosen NiSi's Natural Polariser, which appears to be well-regarded.

Neutral Density, 112mm screw-in

Very few companies currently make 112mm ND filters. With one exception, those that do offer very limited selection in terms of strength. Japan's Tokina makes a line of prime and zoom cinema lenses that have 112mm filter threads. It makes its Cinema Pro IRND filters in 112mm, eight strengths, for these lenses*. IRND means that the filters cut infrared as well as visible light, which has become more or less standard in digital filmmaking. Yesterday, I acquired two of the Tokina filters, which will serve my needs for the time being.

Rationale

I'm satisfied that adding filters to the front of the lens is preferable, from both ease of use and optical perspectives, to adding them to the rear element. My decision was made easier by the fact that I've been able to acquire the three filters at prices that make them affordable, which means that I should be able to sell them eventually without losing a meaningful amount of money.

I have a Nikkor W f/6.5 360mm lens that also made the decision easier. This lens has a 95mm filter thread. I think that a step-up ring to the 112mm filters may be more convenient in some cases than using my Lee100 system.

Follow-up

I plan to speak with S.K. Grimes after the holidays about how I might be able to use Lee's SW150 System graduated neutral density filters. I also plan to ask Lee whether it sees a problem if I have S.K. Grimes make a 112mm adapter for its SW150 holder. Lee's own largest adapter is 105mm.

If B+W responds to my query about the thickness of the glass on its XS-Pro line of filters (see post #25 of the thread linked above), I'll post what it says.

I think that the ideas in the thread linked above are of on-going interest because they offer ways to address vignetting from stacking filters.


* Tokina also makes its Cinema Pro IRND filters in five other other diameters, as well as in 4"x5.65" and 6.6"x6.6" for matte boxes. Tokina owns Formatt-Hitech, but my understanding is that the Cinema Pro filters are made in Japan rather than in the U.K.

I'm in a similar situation with my 90mm Nikkor f/4.5 lens. It has a Schneider CF that takes 105mm filters in the front. All my other lenses (75, 150 and 300) take my 77mm filters with step-up adapters. So anything you find out and can pass along would be helpful to me.

[r.e.]

I'm in a similar situation with my 90mm Nikkor f/4.5 lens. It has a Schneider CF that takes 105mm filters in the front. All my other lenses (75, 150 and 300) take my 77mm filters with step-up adapters. So anything you find out and can pass along would be helpful to me.

Hi Alan,

You said in our pm exchange that you want to use graduated NDs. There are several filter holders on the market that have 105mm adapter rings. Then it's a matter of buying 150mm graduated NDs for the holder. Not cheap, but I don't think that there's an inexpensive solution.

At least you don't have my problem, which is that nobody appears to offer a holder with a 112mm adapter ring. I plan to drop by B&H this week to see if staff there have a solution. Maybe there's a holder that can be attached to the outside of the lens barrel by compression. Failing that, I suspect that it's a matter of what S.K. Grimes can come up with and what it costs. Before speaking with Grimes, I plan to ask Lee Filters whether its SW150 Holder is likely to work if I have a 112mm adapter ring made for it.

[Alan Klein]

Hi Alan,

You said in our pm exchange that you want to use graduated NDs. There are several filter holders on the market that have 105mm adapter rings. Then it's a matter of buying 150mm graduated NDs for the holder. Not cheap, but I don't think that there's an inexpensive solution.

At least you don't have my problem, which is that nobody appears to offer a holder with a 112mm adapter ring. I plan to drop by B&H this week to see if staff there have a solution. Maybe there's a holder that can be attached to the outside of the lens barrel by compression. Failing that, I suspect that it's a matter of what S.K. Grimes can come up with and what it costs. Before speaking with Grimes, I plan to ask Lee Filters whether its SW150 Holder is likely to work if I have a 112mm adapter ring made for it.

Thanks for the input. My current cheap solution if I need a 105mm filter for my 90mm with center filter is to switch to my 75mm lens that only needs one of my 77mm filters with my step-up adapter ring and do without the center filter.

[Kiwi7475]

Hi Alan,

You said in our pm exchange that you want to use graduated NDs. There are several filter holders on the market that have 105mm adapter rings. Then it's a matter of buying 150mm graduated NDs for the holder. Not cheap, but I don't think that there's an inexpensive solution.

At least you don't have my problem, which is that nobody appears to offer a holder with a 112mm adapter ring. I plan to drop by B&H this week to see if staff there have a solution. Maybe there's a holder that can be attached to the outside of the lens barrel by compression. Failing that, I suspect that it's a matter of what S.K. Grimes can come up with and what it costs. Before speaking with Grimes, I plan to ask Lee Filters whether its SW150 Holder is likely to work if I have a 112mm adapter ring made for it.

If you’re into 3D printing or you know someone that does, that route could be the easiest and cheapest option. There’s a lot out there already, for example I found this which included 112mm adapters.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4257081

(See post #2 referencing https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2485988)

[r.e.]

If you’re into 3D printing or you know someone that does, that route could be the easiest and cheapest option.

Thanks. Good idea, definitely worth exploring.