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Thread: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

  1. #11

    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    8x10 Sinar Norma Long Apo Ronar 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

    Camera Bellows made me the Norma 453.18 "Special Bellows" 5x7 to 8x10 shorty bellows. Listed in the Norma catalog (Bernice posted a Sinar comment on it ^^^), never seen one in decent shape -ever.- So I had Keith build me one to catalog specs. Going to the 5x7 Intermediate Standard in the middle adds a lot of stability to this setup. As does the Plaubel Peco Profia Camera Stand.
    Last edited by Daniel Unkefer; 5-Oct-2021 at 12:58.
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

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  2. #12

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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Dan, how do you manage the stand in the field?

  3. #13

    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    Dan, how do you manage the stand in the field?
    Dan,

    Obviously I don't take it out in the field It stays in the studio

    I have multiple FOBA C40 tripods which were designed for the 8x10 Sinar Norma. These work well to support the big rig
    Last edited by Daniel Unkefer; 11-Oct-2021 at 07:34.
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  4. #14

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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    another lens to consider are the Nikkor 600/800/1200 tele set. Much cheaper than $14k, even for a complete set. They are tele lenses, so you'll need less bellows (the 800 takes about 530mm at infinity.) On the negative side, according to the data sheet, you won't have any image circle for movements. I've never used one, so I can't comment in the image quality, but their smaller tele set (360/500/720) can look quite nice on 4x5.

  5. #15
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Isn't the lens in question a heavy monster? 95% of the 8x10 shots I take are with distinctly longer than "normal" lenses, and the acuity of the images doesn't suffer one whit due to that. But I don't use teles, and I do use precise adhesive filmholders when a significant degree of enlargement might be in play. Dealing with depth of field issues logistically is somewhat different than with 4x5 cameras, even though identical movement options are used. So it might take awhile learning how to efficiently compose similar narrow long perspectives with an 8x10 system instead.

    Now for that other nonsense claim of Bernice. 8x10 film has 60 times the surface area as 35mm. So it would take one helluva incredibly lousy lens on an 8x10 to fall behind the very best 35mm tele lens one could buy. A big magnification for 35mm is the size of a postcard. A comparable magnification for 8x10 would be the width of a typical room. The best tele-photographer I have ever known, technique wise, used a big 8x10 Toyo G camera and heavy tripod, a 360 Apo Nikkor process lens (which easily covers 8x10), and a Nikon camera on the film plane. That large image circle process lens actually gave better resolution than any dedicated Nikon lens. And he was at the time a specialized telescope and camera dealer, who had access to whatever he wanted.

    Now as far as moving things like wildlife photography goes, well, just last week I took along my 4X5 Norma and a Ries tripod, which was just barely heavy enough not to become a kite in the constant winds above coastal cliffs. And I had to be very patient indeed to time split second exposures during those very brief moments when the gusts temporarily stopped, yet the pattern of waves below was just right too. Amazingly, these exposures came out totally crisp and unshaken. But I've got a lot of experience doing this; and an 8x10 is an even bigger kite, and especially hard to control with a long bellows extension. One can get a heart attack just worrying about the setup getting destabilized in the wind, and a very expensive lens getting damaged. But I have a method to my madness.

    This week, however, I think I'll opt for the P67 once again instead. Faster to operate. Two weeks ago I used the 300EDIF with it - a superb lens that can upstage any 35mm tele. I don't give a damn about people rattling off MTF data to me. Even at 6 time the film surface area, rather than 15X or 60X, it's still a Godzilla versus Bambi contest. Size matters. But some people might want Godzilla himself along to help carry the bigger options.

  6. #16

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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Drew,

    Grapenoccio...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Canon 300mm f2.8 on canon DSLR.


    Bernice

  7. #17
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Cute, but why is that toothpick nose growing so fast? I rarely shoot 35mm, but when I do almost always use just a classic Nikon 85/1.4, which is close range corrected; and I do have an auto extension ring for it. Fun for wildflowers and so forth. My most usable close up shots are actually on 8x10 film, because they're wonderful for big color prints. But I'm reverting back more to 4x5 simply because 8x10 color film has become so expensive, though I do still have a reasonable stash of it in the freezer. In terms of former print sales, it was all good. Certain tiny color prints from handheld 35mm closeup shots did well, but the big ones from 8x10 or 4x5 film did good too for another reason. But I haven't been printing much color at all during the covid era, just enough to use up some remaining paper. I don't want any more respiratory irritation at all, especially atop our noxious forest fire smoke epidemic, though it's nowhere near as bad here on the coast as last autumn. Mostly black and white. How about you, Bernice?

  8. #18

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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Drew,

    Grapenoccio...
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Size:	34.7 KB 
ID:	220127


    Canon 300mm f2.8 on canon DSLR.


    Bernice
    Careful, he has a knife and a grin!!! Love him, wish I had him at work...


    Tele work isn't impossible, but difficult to wait out conditions and have a camera rig stable enough to not sag and stay steady...

    Much cheaper than this lens would be a camera with a long extension and long focus lenses... I think shooting long distance landscapes would be difficult with wind and air moving, but possible at rare moments... I'm setting up a long rig for city shooting when shooting architectural details, or when across a wide street and have to get up close (from far away)... I tend to shoot in the early evening or night while to air is steadier and get very good detail at distances (recent night shot of LA city hall from a 1/2 mile away, and you can count the bricks)... The 8X10 I'm restoring is rigid, long 27" bellows, and I have a
    nice T/R 15/24/36" for it and 4X5 and 6x9 reduction backs for it to narrow the view... So will see how it works in the real world... ;-)

    I still don't knock 35mm, and a "normal" lens for it is a good 300mm f5.6... If you treat it like a view camera set-up, especially process carefully, use a speciality enlarger (like a Leitz), I can blow up 11x14's that look like contact prints, and 16x20 or 20x24's that still look good... So not dead yet... ;-)

    Steve K

  9. #19

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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    Here's another vote for the Nikkor-T set instead. You'll get 90% of the quality of the Schneider APO with all of the same challenges!

    On image circle: you're already compromised on movements with a telephoto, so image circle already matters less, but I can say that whatever the IC is in terms of satisfactory resolution, the 800mm's IC isn't limited by black corners. I've used it (**gasp**) on 11x14. Whatever in the corners, it looks lovely in the majority 2/3s of the center image for both resolution and rendering.

  10. #20
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

    I worry that Bernice has invented the "Chuckie" of the photographic world, sneaking around in your darkroom, until it suddenly pounces with that knife, and nothing can kill it in turn. I'm getting so anxious that I shine a flashlight into my enlarger bellows every time before I dare focus with it. I'm already too scared to ever use an 8x10 camera bellows again, since Bernice has already hinted how that doesn't particularly please him, especially for macro applications. Gotta be careful these days what you say on forums like these ... you can make enemies.

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