Schneider APO-Tele Xenar HM 800 f/12?

[rawitz]

Then there was Feininger who liked to take New York street scenes from New Jersey.

Attachment 221508

Hm, this setup doesn´t look very sturdy, isn´t it?

It´s also a myth, that these lenses are only used/needed for "exotic" usage.
For 8x10 a 800mm lens is only a portrait focal corresponding to 135mm SLR.
For my 9x15 it´s not even double standard focal-lens and so on ...

regards
Rainer

[nolindan]

... Hm, this setup doesn´t look very sturdy ...

But he got some marvelous photographs with it - https://www.moma.org/collection/works/50169

His liked the perspective as it showed the size of the buildings in their true relation to the steamships and the people and traffic on 42nd street.

[rawitz]

No discussion about the quality of his pictures.
I saw his NY-pics as a bloody young man and photobeginner in the 60th and they blew me away!
I suppose yours here is a "self-promotion" picture, not a picture in real work, which could not be done without a 3rd tripod at lens tip.

[nolindan]

I suppose [this is Feininger's] "self-promotion" picture, not a picture in real work, which could not be done without a 3rd tripod at lens tip.

I think you are right. I remember pictures of his camera with a more elaborate tripod setup. Taking pictures from the top of the basalt cliffs of the Hudson Palisades gave him a genuinely 'rock solid' foundation, as Sinar recommends when using 6 feet of extension rails. I'm sure Feininger had to wait for days and moments of no wind to keep the camera steady and to dramatize the smoke from the steamships as it hangs in the still air.

[Mark Sampson]

This thread does prove, sort of, that the internet works.
Long after the original poster puts up a question, someone with actual experience of the lens provides an answer.... despite everyone else's comments (including my own) and the inevitable thread drift.
Thank you rawitz!

[rawitz]

Then there was Feininger who liked to take New York street scenes from New Jersey.

Attachment 221508

... here my tribut to Feininger with my ApoTeleXenar 800 and Toyo 810m. The combination of lens and camera (I lent it) seems very sturdy that I want to show it for comments here. I made test pictures with 1/30sek on a normal (bit-)windy day without any further precaution and I will see the portra cnegs soon.

For the discussion about lens quality of the ATX800 and the Apo-process-lenses I found a valid MTV-spec for the ApoRonarCl800 and show it here for comparison to the ATX800.







As I can see the ApoRonar800 is a lens optimized for equal qualitiy over the whole IC, not for best sharpness. Specs here are for 1:1 and f32 and MTF 16l/mm, so we have to reduce specs for oo and more open f-stop.
The ATX800 is optimized for sharpness, f-wide open and f-22 (MTF 20l/mm) there is no difference, with some falldown for the radial resulution.
Hm, comparing this I prefer my ATX800 lens or the Nikkor ED 600/800/ (I have none any more for comparison and there are no MTV-specs).
What do you think?

regards
Rainer

[rawitz]

For the adventure of long-focal-lens I did a test with the ATX800 and Toyo M810 on a sunny morning with medium wind on a main-river-bridge to the Frankfurt skyline.
I made two shot that where sharp, but with a 20x loupe one was a bit sharper than the other and I show it here.





The last detail pic is left border 1/2 inch horizontally to filmsize 8x10 so you have to enlarge 20x from the size on your display for the real picture. I shot 1/125sek 16f on Fuji NPS400 C-41. No sharpening was made scanning (Epson V700 2400dpi) and post.

Doesnt look bad. But it will be an adventure to go out with 15kg and fight with camera stability, filmflatness, wind and heatwaves. The ATX800 and the Toyo M810 seem to be an ideal combination for that task, unfortunally I dont own a Toyo M810 (yet).

regards
Rainer

[rawitz]

I had the opportunity to shoot with a Toyo 810m and the Nikkor T ED 1200 combi. I tried to optimize my package and setup. The whole package is a airflight softcase with external carbon tripod, and for the camera setup the solution of stability-issue was to stabilize with a second (light) tripod not the camera rail, but directly the lens barrel. I took 4 shots with different apertures and times, they all (!) were equal tack-sharp, even compared to the Schneider with only marginal underperformance.
So I think with modern gear this kind of extreme LF is operable, much more than in the times of Feininger and Wolf.







regards
Rainer

[nolindan]

I read somewhere: "With 4x5 you can count the leaves on the trees. With 8x10 you can see the very air itself." I have an 8x10 contact print of a view across a pond in the morning - the mist over the pond is palpable and the far side of the pond looks just right with the atmospherics softening the view; if the shot had been made with a '35 and enlarged my reaction would be "What is all this grey 'blah' that's getting in the way? It really spoils the shot."

I have to confess I have never used anything longer than a 300mm lens on 8x10. I have a long focus shutterless process lens kicking around but I have never gotten around to using it. I can get 'telephoto eyes' with a 35mm camera, and a 105mm lens seems a natural, but not with 8x10 for some strange reason. Maybe it is my subconscious stifling the thought of a 600mm+ lens with imaginings of all the hassle involved.

[Bernice Loui]

Larger film does not automatically translate to more "resolution", there is more to resolution than sheet film size.

The focal lenght equalivancy factor does not accout for the actual focal lenght of the lens and the conquences of strict lens focal lenght. Yes, in terms of visual "perspective" these can be effective focal lenghts for a given imager or film format, you're still dealing with the given focal lenght and aperture of the given lens. This business of "equalivant" lens focal lenghts for a given imager/film format is complex.. Adding to this, in to out of focus rendition or the goal of everyting in the image in percieved focus as a image goal.


Bernice

I read somewhere: "With 4x5 you can count the leaves on the trees. With 8x10 you can see the very air itself." I have an 8x10 contact print of a view across a pond in the morning - the mist over the pond is palpable and the far side of the pond looks just right with the atmospherics softening the view; if the shot had been made with a '35 and enlarged my reaction would be "What is all this grey 'blah' that's getting in the way? It really spoils the shot."

I have to confess I have never used anything longer than a 300mm lens on 8x10. I have a long focus shutterless process lens kicking around but I have never gotten around to using it. I can get 'telephoto eyes' with a 35mm camera, and a 105mm lens seems a natural, but not with 8x10 for some strange reason. Maybe it is my subconscious stifling the thought of a 600mm+ lens with imaginings of all the hassle involved.