Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 113

Thread: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    118

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by ic-racer View Post
    The article has no useful information. Not ever worthy of reading without any information other than of the 160,000 people that died yesterday, you are to think of only those persons and not the rest
    You're right there, the article is stating the same lines over and over to hide there's nothing to tell.
    I own the gear, but those don't make masterpieces. My everyday experience.

  2. #12
    Tin Can's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    17,739

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    I never feed OP dogs

    and my dogs ate only good Dog food, that I gave them

    I could hold Cosmopolitan Topper in my lap while eating and he never wanted any

    but he really liked old used up rag dolls, so I bought them at garage sales and did not wash them

    RIP Cosmo

    Top Dog

  3. #13
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Wash.
    Posts
    2,871

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by ic-racer View Post
    The article has no useful information. Not ever worthy of reading without any information other than of the 160,000 people that died yesterday, you are to think of only those persons and not the rest
    Quote Originally Posted by fotopfw View Post
    You're right there, the article is stating the same lines over and over to hide there's nothing to tell.
    Maybe it’s the awkward English, but I’m not comprehending the criticisms above.

    Is the criticism about the newsworthy-ness of the story? The suitability of this story for the “Location and Travel” forum? The reporter doing a poor job?

    -----
    Just in case, below is an alternative report from The Fresno Bee:

    https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...253572954.html

  4. #14
    Drew Wiley
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay area, CA
    Posts
    15,968

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Stories like this do need to get broadcast, even if they don't have any immediate answers. It did make it to a momentary notice on late news last night, after the hours of news devoted to forest fire havoc and Afghanistan. Just a picture of a young couple and a toddler seemingly out for a casual walk, who never came home until someone stumbled on them. Well, under what conditions did they set out, perhaps naively, and how prepared? Did they even have water along. And with a toddler, they certainly couldn't have moved along efficiently. And why did it take so long for someone to find them, even in vicinity of a well-known trail where their car was parked? Well, rural locals know better than to wander off toward a steep canyon on a day that will get really hot by midmorning, and much worse in the afternoon, especially with a small child in tow. Maybe in desperation they drank bad water, maybe not.

    The same kind of thing happened right around here just a few weeks ago. A young marathon runner set out for a 45 minute jog on a ridge trail right above town, and never returned. It took three weeks to find him, and when they finally did, it was less than half a mile from a suburban shopping center. He left his water bottle in the car, probably got dazed and disoriented with heat exhaustion, followed a game trail mistaken for a shortcut, then collapsed under a tree and died there. That particular day set an all-time heat record for that city - 113F. Moral of the story - don't underestimate extreme heat. Same goes for wandering off into fire prone zones right now. What really does need to be broadcast is the need for common sense, not necessarily the coroner's report. Plenty of naive amateur photographers have died in the West similarly over the years.

  5. #15
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Wash.
    Posts
    2,871

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Stories like this do need to get broadcast, even if they don't have any immediate answers. It did make it to a momentary notice on late news last night, after the hours of news devoted to forest fire havoc and Afghanistan.
    Initial autopsy reports are back, it’s all still all a mystery.

    Ruled out: blunt force trauma, knife attack, gunshot wounds, animal attack.

    The two leading theories remain consumption of toxic algae in the river, or possibly gas emissions from nearby abandoned mines. (The absence of any other dead animals nearby – birds, rodents, deer, etc. – make the mine-gas theory unlikely.)

    A necropsy on the dog, whose name was Oksi, is also being done.

    Toxicology reports will take another 2-3 weeks. I suspect this report, which takes a close look at blood contents, will answer important questions – and probably solve why a family of three and their dog died next to the Savage-Lundy trail during a day hike.

    Maybe there will be a lesson for LFers who often stroll an hour or two from their car.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Seattle area, WA
    Posts
    998

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heroique View Post
    Initial autopsy reports are back, it’s all still all a mystery.

    Ruled out: blunt force trauma, knife attack, gunshot wounds, animal attack.

    The two leading theories remain consumption of toxic algae in the river, or possibly gas emissions from nearby abandoned mines. (The absence of any other dead animals nearby – birds, rodents, deer, etc. – make the mine-gas theory unlikely.)

    A necropsy on the dog, whose name was Oksi, is also being done.

    Toxicology reports will take another 2-3 weeks. I suspect this report, which takes a close look at blood contents, will answer important questions – and probably solve why three people and a dog died next to the Savage-Lundy trail during a day hike.

    Maybe there will be a lesson for LFers who often stroll an hour or two from their car.
    Did the WWII Japanese ballons bombs ever carry chemical weapons? I've heard that they have found them out in the woods even relatively recently. Very weird indeed.

  7. #17
    Land-Scapegrace Heroique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Wash.
    Posts
    2,871

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by domaz View Post
    Did the WWII Japanese balloons bombs ever carry chemical weapons? I've heard that they have found them out in the woods even relatively recently. Very weird indeed.
    Perhaps authorities will need some unique ideas like yours to help solve these hiker deaths...

    I think the Japanese WW2 balloons have never had poisons associated with them, only incendiary devices? However, I know in 1945, a pregnant woman and several children in Oregon, looking for a picnic spot, found a grounded Japanese balloon which exploded and killed them.

    So your idea actually has some sort of precedent.

  8. #18
    Drew Wiley
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay area, CA
    Posts
    15,968

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    They're currently taking water samples in the specific area, to test for any potential toxicity. No chemical weapons. I've spent most of my life wandering those west-side Sierra canyons, and know the geology and water quality issues quite well. I find the toxic mine gas hypothesis far-fetched. Why would they take a little child deep inside something like that, or manage to be found a considerable distance from any open mine shaft? But it very well could be a combination of heat stress and bad water. And of course there is a relevant lesson for LF hikers, no matter what the final diagnosis of these victims turns out to be - carry sufficient water, don't foolishly got out in severe heat or into terrain beyond your physical abilities. That which goes steeply downhill must inevitably go steeply back up. Stay in shape, and appreciate the words of Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry : "A man's got to know his limitations".

    More exotic explanations which might still need to be ruled out would involve an encounter with some kind of hazardous mining chemical, or something similar hidden in the area by meth producers. But if that were the case, you'd think others would have stumbled into such things before in the vicinity. The meth types tend to hide back in the brush, not set up operations in a roadless steep canyon. They have to transport their drums and vats.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    792

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    I've spent most of my life wandering those west-side Sierra canyons, and know the geology and water quality issues quite well. I find the toxic mine gas hypothesis far-fetched.
    Story has made it into the news over here too.

    Are any of the mines flooded? A CO2 release via a fairly mild geological event might not be out of the question (effectively a lake overturn underground + gas released through fissures) - and should be investigated, if only to rule it out. If any of the mines are flooded, are they monitored for levels of dissolved gases?

  10. #20
    Drew Wiley
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SF Bay area, CA
    Posts
    15,968

    Re: Deadly hike----Haz-Mat the cause?

    Gold prospectors went everywhere. It's in the heart of the Mother Lode gold country. Later tungsten prospecting occurred, during that brief phase when it was more valuable than gold. But cyanide leach mining was not characteristic, nor placer mining in this relatively lower altitude serpentine geological context. There is an especially beautiful variety of serpentine in the area called Mariposite, prized as building stone, and prized by 8x10 color film too, in my case. Nobody monitors old mines unless they are formally open to the public. They are generally outright closed shut by dynamite. But I don't know all the specifics in this case. I have been into old gold mines myself elsewhere in the Calif. gold belt, and have done some real sluicing too - miserable, backbreaking work.

    Knew miners growing up - an interesting stubborn lot, to be sure! - often with a sad country-western tune kind of background, swallowing their sorrows with a bottle of booze between sessions of pick, shovel, and dynamite, but remaining grubby and forlorn-looking the whole time. The miner who lived near our property only worked his mine enough to pay his property taxes and buy booze and a can of beans now and then. He lived in a tiny one-room shack shared with pack rats, with big drafty holes in the walls, and slept on a filthy rotting mattress with a single ragged blanket, yet died still owning over 35,000 acres. His long-alienated son was shocked when he learned the scale of his inheritance.

    I'm sure they'll further investigate the mine gas possibility or rule it out, depending on the coroner's report. Since this is a popular area in more comfortable seasons, public safety with respect to old mines might need a second look. But some mines are legal inholding, or still-valid mining claims, which could be potentially fenced off with signage, though that would be an unfortunate answer scenically. People who madly rush to Yosemite Valley in the Spring are actually missing the even bigger show lower down in the hill country, in my opinion, which deserves equal protection. I think there is some formal wild and scenic river status to portions of this. And the herds of people arriving in cars who almost trample each other trying to get to California poppy displays around Antelope Valley outside of San Bernadino probably don't even know about the perhaps even more stunning displays in several Sierra canyons in many years. A bit of drought actually favors the poppies and lovely Mariposa lilies, since surrounding grass won't be as high. Fortunately, these places are harder to get to, even driving, than the desert settings adjacent to big SoCal cities.

Similar Threads

  1. Hike-able step stool?
    By Darin Boville in forum Gear
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 29-Sep-2013, 23:46
  2. North Dome hike.
    By ignatiusjk in forum Location & Travel
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-Jun-2012, 18:57

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •