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Thread: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

  1. #51

    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    Ebay? Google Sinar Norma? Check local stocks? Hit up photog friends? Bought one recently from KEH for $250 Patience is a necessary virtue

    Glenn Evans knows his stuff and has had a lot of inventory throughout the decades. Study his Norma webpage

    http://www.glennview.com/sinar.htm

    Why suggest this is difficult when it really isn't

    -Dan, who got grease on his T-shirt from a Sinar Norma today
    Last edited by Daniel Unkefer; 27-Jul-2021 at 13:44.
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  2. #52
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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    All the complaints were addressed—where to buy, where to get information, how to find parts, where to get service and what it might cost.

    We also don’t need to assume the OP has no skills or talent so that they have to be spoon-fed. If what had been advised isn’t workable, the OP will tell us.

    But at some point, one ought to take the hint provided by the ending point of many here (including you, Sharktooth). Would the journey to that endpoint be better with a camera that doesn’t fulfill requirements even when like new, or with one that does after a bit of repair? I have had to fix all the view cameras I have used—I’ve never been able to afford a new one. That includes the horrifyingly bad Newton NueVue (bought in 1982, but old even then), which required a lot of work, and after that effort was still worthless crap. That was the best I could do at the time, after having used a Linhof in college. A Sinar—any of them—won’t be worthless crap after any required fiddling.

    Rick “knowing how to fix them won’t do the owner any harm” Denney

  3. #53

    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    8x10 Sinar Norma Long Apo Ronar 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

    Camera Bellows made me the Norma "Special Bellows" 5x7 to 8x10 shorty bellows. Listed in the Norma catalog, never seen one in decent shape -ever.- So I had Keith build me one to catalog specs. Going to the 5x7 Intermediate Standard in the middle adds a lot of stability to this setup. As does the Plaubel Peco Profia Camera Stand.
    Last edited by Daniel Unkefer; 28-Jul-2021 at 07:57.
    Flikr Photos Here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/

    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  4. #54
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    Sharktooth - Sinars are still and probably will be the easiest to repair, simply because you can get a used version so cheaply and easily these days, that cannibalizing parts is easy. A person can often acquire a whole replacement camera these days for less than what a single major replacement part cost during the heyday of Sinar Bron. There are still in fact outlets carrying service parts too. And even old Normas are so well made that they were designed to be tuned up periodically. Of course, one has to do their homework when buying a new one. An example with a clean original bellows is going to command a higher price than one with issues. And those original 4X5 tapered bellows are more versatile than the subsequent box bellows. But quite a few clean Normas have turned up in recent years.

    Recommending one go to a camera dealer instead of the web auction site isn't as simple as it once was. Yes, even our local camera store sometimes has a used Sinar of some kind for sale. But it's not like the old days. Don't expect anyone on staff there to know what they're talking about. And they'll probably be asking three times as much money as the thing is realistically worth. Frankly, there's a glut of Sinar for sale overall. Some of it is cobbled together out of spare parts, for better or worse. A beginner probably wouldn't know that an F1 front standard doesn't realistically match a P rear carrier. But that's what forums like this are for - simply ask experienced Sinar users!

    Of course, I'm not knocking other view camera brands at all. Once just has to decide, given a single introductory camera, whether it should be monorail or folder design, and where to go from that point, selection-wise. But I've never personally been of the philosophy that beginners should start out with lower quality. That can lead to frustration and just starting all over again before long. My "beginner" view camera proved to be a lifetime piece of gear, at least in a system sense.

    The original question I think I already answered earlier, F2 vs Norma. I have em both. The Norma is a more handsome and rugged and about a pound heavier, similarly equipped. The original tapered bellows is deluxe by comparison. But the later F2 has smoother focus gearing.

  5. #55

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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    I have been photographing with Sinar cameras since the late 90s. I have used Normas but never owned one. I have Sinar F2 cameras in 4x5 and 8x10, P in 4x5, 5x7, 6x17 (customized to use the Canham 6x17 roll film back) and 8x10, and the P2 in 4x5. I agree with a lot of what has been said in favor of the F2 as a first camera but would offer a few additional points.

    If you are patient, you can find good Sinar F2s for $400 or less. That’s often cheaper that a Norma. Parts and accessories are way easier to find than a Norma. But most importantly to a photographer new to large format, it will be the easiest system to grow with. You often don’t know what you want or need when jumping into large format. You do your research and then at some point you pull the trigger on a system. The difference is that most photographers learn what they want from a camera after using it for a while. So, buying a camera that doesn’t meet your needs after six months can be an expensive mistake to correct.

    One of the great things about a Sinar is its modularity. As you grown and learn large format the format can change and grow to meet your needs. There is almost no configuration you can’t come up with using a Sinar F2. I shoot multiple formats with lenses from 38mm (to be fair I use it rarely) to 600mm. You just modify the configuration of your camera to suit your subject. That alone makes it a great camera for a new photographer to start with. And lastly they hold their value. You can buy a used one, use it for years and if you decide to sell it you can more than likely get what you paid for it.

    One thing I would recommend is learning how to pack the F2. If you get creative you can still get it compact and safely stored in a backpack.

    Just my 2 cents.

    -Joshua

  6. #56

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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    O.K., I have to admit I've been completely wrong on this issue. i sincerely bow to your superior knowledge and sage advice.

    There's no question that Sinars truly are virtually indestructible. Possibly even anointed by a higher being.

    So, head on over to eBay or Google and snap up your own Norma for $250 (or preferably less).

    What could possibly go wrong? Nothing, apparently.

    Silly me. I'm hoping it was just a temporary lapse of reason.

  7. #57
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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by sharktooth View Post
    O.K., I have to admit I've been completely wrong on this issue. i sincerely bow to your superior knowledge and sage advice.

    There's no question that Sinars truly are virtually indestructible. Possibly even anointed by a higher being.

    So, head on over to eBay or Google and snap up your own Norma for $250 (or preferably less).

    What could possibly go wrong? Nothing, apparently.

    Silly me. I'm hoping it was just a temporary lapse of reason.
    Glad you “came around.”

    Rick “lol” Denney

  8. #58

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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    Indeed. My serving of humble pie came in Sinar recessed board. Still though, it was quite tasty.

  9. #59

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    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    Now ya know and have met the tribe of "filmy_old" Sinar users here on LFF...


    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by sharktooth View Post
    Indeed. My serving of humble pie came in Sinar recessed board. Still though, it was quite tasty.

  10. #60

    Join Date
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    3,901

    Re: Sinar F2 Vs Sinar Norma (4x5)

    Better to get involved with a view camera system that the creative artist image maker can grow into than a view camera that the creative artist image maker develops out of...

    As for the Sinar F.. it can fold up like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    F2 folded...
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    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Dunn View Post
    I have been photographing with Sinar cameras since the late 90s. I have used Normas but never owned one. I have Sinar F2 cameras in 4x5 and 8x10, P in 4x5, 5x7, 6x17 (customized to use the Canham 6x17 roll film back) and 8x10, and the P2 in 4x5. I agree with a lot of what has been said in favor of the F2 as a first camera but would offer a few additional points.

    If you are patient, you can find good Sinar F2s for $400 or less. That’s often cheaper that a Norma. Parts and accessories are way easier to find than a Norma. But most importantly to a photographer new to large format, it will be the easiest system to grow with. You often don’t know what you want or need when jumping into large format. You do your research and then at some point you pull the trigger on a system. The difference is that most photographers learn what they want from a camera after using it for a while. So, buying a camera that doesn’t meet your needs after six months can be an expensive mistake to correct.

    One of the great things about a Sinar is its modularity. As you grown and learn large format the format can change and grow to meet your needs. There is almost no configuration you can’t come up with using a Sinar F2. I shoot multiple formats with lenses from 38mm (to be fair I use it rarely) to 600mm. You just modify the configuration of your camera to suit your subject. That alone makes it a great camera for a new photographer to start with. And lastly they hold their value. You can buy a used one, use it for years and if you decide to sell it you can more than likely get what you paid for it.

    One thing I would recommend is learning how to pack the F2. If you get creative you can still get it compact and safely stored in a backpack.

    Just my 2 cents.

    -Joshua

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