View Poll Results: Which lens would you keep?

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  • Nikon Nikkor W 150mm 5.6

    6 50.00%
  • Fujinon W 150mm 5.6

    6 50.00%
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Thread: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

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  1. #1

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    Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Helo everyone. I'm seeking some input. I've found myself with both a Nikkor W and a Fujinon W 150mm 5.6 lens (multi coated version). They're both in excellent condition and look nearly new to me. I have no need to keep both and I have no experience with either lens. If you had both of these and had to keep one and sell the other then which would you keep?

  2. #2

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    They would be nearly identical_same. Shutters accuracy, functional aspects, wear from being used are FAR more important than brand.

    Pick your preferred brand tribal loyalty then move on. None of this will make one Narry bit O difference in the print results.


    Bernice

  3. #3

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Personally, I'd keep 'em both as you never know what application might arise someday whereby you'd want a 150. Prices for used analog photo equipment continue to rise as the years pass so, if you sold one, then someday wanted another 150 for some reason you'd probably wind up paying more to replace the one you had. Just sayin...

  4. #4

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Quote Originally Posted by hyatts3 View Post
    Helo everyone. I'm seeking some input. I've found myself with both a Nikkor W and a Fujinon W 150mm 5.6 lens (multi coated version). They're both in excellent condition and look nearly new to me. I have no need to keep both and I have no experience with either lens. If you had both of these and had to keep one and sell the other then which would you keep?
    Why not shoot with both and decide which you prefer?

  5. #5

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    They would be nearly identical_same. Shutters accuracy, functional aspects, wear from being used are FAR more important than brand.

    Pick your preferred brand tribal loyalty then move on. None of this will make one Narry bit O difference in the print results.


    Bernice
    I was wondering if this might be the case. The only differences I've been told otherwise were that the Fuji has a larger image circle and "is a 6/6 air spaced lens and the nikkor a 6/4 plasmat. Fuji split the plasmat design apart as they deemed it to be sharper this way." I admit that, while I understand this means the elements are laid out differently, it means means nothing to me practically speaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan9940 View Post
    Personally, I'd keep 'em both as you never know what application might arise someday whereby you'd want a 150. Prices for used analog photo equipment continue to rise as the years pass so, if you sold one, then someday wanted another 150 for some reason you'd probably wind up paying more to replace the one you had. Just sayin...
    Considered that also and may well take this advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Why not shoot with both and decide which you prefer?
    Thanks Bob. It may come to that. I thought people with more experience than me may have some compelling reason why one would be the better choice.

  6. #6

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Which version Fujinon 150mm f5.6, as there were two and variants as this basic design was made for decades.
    The inside lettering version advertised a larger image circle (Fuji page previous posted by another LFF member):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fujinon W_inside lettering.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	71.6 KB 
ID:	217723

    Later versions of the "W" had smaller advertised image circle, "EBC" coated and all that (which IMO, makes nada difference these days in real world image making):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fujinon Lens data.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	122.5 KB 
ID:	217724

    Larger image circle alone does not results in a more desirable lens, it is all a set of trade-offs.

    Drop the "shaper" idea-belief as they are Fujinon versions essentially equal. Newer version might have higher contrast under specific image conditions like the Nikkor, but one variable like shading the lens with the dark slide when outdoors or a properly set up bellows shade in studio will very effectively negate these difference. This is due to view camera lenses being designed and produced with fewer lens elements than lenses made for roll film or digital cameras. This significantly reduces the mandate for extreme anti-reflection coatings that are absolutely required for complex roll film or digital zoom lenses and such. Essentially those old ways to digital or roll film camera obsessions often do not apply to this view camera stuff.

    As for lens testing digest this link from a previous discussion:
    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...Used-LF-Lenses

    Better to make lots of images with both lenses then decide. Identical and consistency is key here.

    Best to pick a one lens (IMO, based on condition & accuracy of the shutter), move on.

    One more thing, the great view camera lens equalizer is f22...



    Bernice








    Quote Originally Posted by hyatts3 View Post
    I was wondering if this might be the case. The only differences I've been told otherwise were that the Fuji has a larger image circle and "is a 6/6 air spaced lens and the nikkor a 6/4 plasmat. Fuji split the plasmat design apart as they deemed it to be sharper this way." I admit that, while I understand this means the elements are laid out differently, it means means nothing to me practically speaking.


  7. #7
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Which version Fujinon 150mm f5.6, as there were two and variants as this basic design was made for decades.
    The inside lettering version advertised a larger image circle (Fuji page previous posted by another LFF member):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fujinon W_inside lettering.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	71.6 KB 
ID:	217723

    Later versions of the "W" had smaller advertised image circle, "EBC" coated and all that (which IMO, makes nada difference these days in real world image making):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fujinon Lens data.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	122.5 KB 
ID:	217724

    Larger image circle alone does not results in a more desirable lens, it is all a set of trade-offs.

    Drop the "shaper" idea-belief as they are Fujinon versions essentially equal. Newer version might have higher contrast under specific image conditions like the Nikkor, but one variable like shading the lens with the dark slide when outdoors or a properly set up bellows shade in studio will very effectively negate these difference. This is due to view camera lenses being designed and produced with fewer lens elements than lenses made for roll film or digital cameras. This significantly reduces the mandate for extreme anti-reflection coatings that are absolutely required for complex roll film or digital zoom lenses and such. Essentially those old ways to digital or roll film camera obsessions often do not apply to this view camera stuff.

    As for lens testing digest this link from a previous discussion:
    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...Used-LF-Lenses

    Better to make lots of images with both lenses then decide. Identical and consistency is key here.

    Best to pick a one lens (IMO, based on condition & accuracy of the shutter), move on.

    One more thing, the great view camera lens equalizer is f22...



    Bernice
    Bernice. What did you mean?
    "...One more thing, the great view camera lens equalizer is f22..."

  8. #8

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    At f22, diffraction begins to bite out of any possible optical performance advantage due to diffraction and ability to correct optical issues by design. Essentially, Nature imposes it's way with no possible means to escape. Understand the audience and market optics manufactures were forced to address if they had any interest to produce then sell their optical offerings. Keep this harsh reality in mind with the words to follow.

    By the late 1970's modern then new view camera lenses became far more similar than different. This was dictated by what the view camera market demanded. Not a lot of "hobbyist" were into sheet film cameras about that time. Majority of sheet film users back then produced sheet film images to keep a roof over their head, food on their table and profess their passion for making creative images. Majority of sheet film images about that time until the late 1990's were produced on color transparency film. These image makers studied for their profession, understood the nature of film, color, expectations of what a GOOD image is and more. These were folks highly skilled and understood much of what this craft of image making was about. Some did Weddings, some did portraits, some did architectural, some did advertising, few did fine arts images (like Ansel Adams and others).. In all cases, this group of image makers had specific demands and expectations from lens, camera, lighting, film, post processing and all that. Essentially, there were no "hobbyist" level view camera lens offerings from that time as the only real market for view camera lenses back then was this group of knowledgeable, skilled and demanding individuals. If any manufacture tried to produce-sell an inferior view camera lens, that group would never consider that lens ... ever as they simply ran a test to do the evaluation against their current lenses being used to produce work.

    Cost of a given view camera lens for the well funded image makers from that time was mostly irrelevant as cost of running an marketing AD studio and all related easily FAR exceeded the cost of the very best offerings by any optics manufacture. Get hired for a well funded AD image job would often involve an Art director, Prop guy, Assistant(s), Stylist (like food), Studio space, BIG flash power lighting (10,000 w/s easily available was very common) and all the light modifiers involved, Proper studio stand for the Sinar P.. all this makes cost of any lens minuscule in comparison and little if any reason to use any lens that is the best available. All this easily cost more than a few hundred U$S per hour studio hour. Cost of that $2,000+ lens pales to the cost of these individuals involved, studio space involved and cost of running those high power strobes.

    This became the environment that imposed Darwinism upon any lens offering by any lens manufacture like Schneider, Fujinon, Rodenstock, Nikon.

    This is one of the root reasons why any modern lens from the Big Four were essentially same-identical. If any were slightly inferior or slightly different in any way, that market base of users would never accept that lens offering. It was that simple.

    What has happened, that entire market and user base of view camera lenses and all related died in the early 2000's being replaced by digital imaging, software driven image bending and all that. This essentially forced the dumping of BIG powerful studio strobe units, high quality monorail view cameras, color film and it's related image processing chain and all that. It all came down to production cost per image and what was market acceptable.

    What survived were the Artisty folks doing B&W and similar Group f64 style images made popular and famous by Ansel Adams and others. Then came the image makers seeking to produce those images they admired from members of Group f64 and similar. Except, this group often did not have the extensive education, training and hard earned-real world struggles to meet what demanding customers expected. These image makers often came from the ranks of 35mm and 120 roll film and digital camera world. They carry their marketing indoctrination(s) and habits with them into the very different universe of view camera. Stuff like the "Latest & Greatest" lens, the "Latest & Greatest" camera and all those marketing monikers and more. None of which properly applies to the residuals from the view camera universe that once was.

    Old habits and marketing indoctrination(s) don't die easy, they tend to remain and be imposed at all things in the view camera universe even when these habits and marketing indoctrination(s) should have died at the entrance of the view camera universe.

    Or why the same text and reaction each and every time this question of "Nikon or Fujinon or Rodenstock or Schneider"...


    Bernice











    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Bernice. What did you mean?
    "...One more thing, the great view camera lens equalizer is f22..."

  9. #9

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Why not shoot with both and decide which you prefer?
    +1. No need to get all Tristram Shandy about this.

  10. #10

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    Re: Seeking 4x5 Lens Advice - Which Lens To Keep - Fujinon Or Nikkor 150mm 5.6

    Decide on the basis of condition and cost. However you balance them. Otherwise, flip a coin… you’ll likely not see any difference.

    Nikkor had the reputation of being “more contrasty” than its peers. I’m not sure I could see that and aligned with Schneider.

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