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Thread: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

  1. #11

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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    There is also a 5-degree spot attachment for the Minollta IVF.


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  2. #12
    claus's Avatar
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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    With apologies if you already know this, but Tri-X sheet film is not the same emulsion as Tri-X roll film - they are entirely different products. Tri-X roll film developed in D-76 1+1 has a long, gentle shoulder that makes it relatively easy to achieve "full information" negatives that print easily. Tri-X sheet film, on the other hand, generally delivers a steeper highlight curve that's harder to handle. You will likely need to adjust your exposure and development habits, and possibly your choice of paper as well, to get prints that you are happy with.

    Although Tri-X is my favorite roll film, I settled on HP5 Plus as my standard sheet film. It too is different from Tri-X roll film, but I found it more forgiving and closer to my taste than Tri-X sheet film. YMMV.

    I generally use a Sekonic L-308 incident meter, take a reading in my own shadow, and err on the side of exposing generously. I don't tailor development for individual sheets - I use a standard time for everything, just as I do with roll film. If you do want to tailor development on a sheet-by-sheet basis, I'd second the recommendation to look at the incident metering technique described in Phil Davis's Beyond the Zone System book.
    I didn't know that Tri-X sheet film has a different emulsion than its roll film version! I will try HP5 Plus, I'm glad it's cheaper than Tri-X.

    The tailoring of development is something I'm not interested in doing. I'm a very minimalist photographer, I always preferred to work with only one film, one lens, one paper etc... That's why I also prefer not to work with the zone system or spot metering. I've never done that with medium format, and I'm hoping to keep it simple moving up to large format.

    Can I ask you if you shoot HP5 at box speed? I sometimes shoot HP5 roll film rated at 200 and get the same results as when using Tri-X. They're really interchangeable in my practice. I'm wondering if it's the same with their sheet film versions.

  3. #13
    claus's Avatar
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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    Thank you for the article, I will take a look at it.
    My Minolta Autometer IV already has the functionality of giving me the difference between two different readings – shadows and highlights in this case.
    I didn't read the article yet, but would this functionality be useful with BTZS?

  4. #14

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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    I tend to like flat negatives with lots of shadow detail myself, so I tend to incident meter the darkest shadow area that I want to retain detail, and use that as my nominal exposure reading! If I am concerned about blown highlights when enlarger printing I'll shoot two sheets and develop the first nominally, and if the highlights are too hot I'll pull process the second sheet as required. If you use a forgiving film such as HP5+ as already suggested, a second sheet will rarely be required. I usually print digitally these days, so I'll shoot TMY (higher contrast than HP5+ but better reciprocity behavior) and selectively pull back highlights as needed in Photoshop rather than pull process the entire negative.

  5. #15
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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    Quote Originally Posted by claus View Post
    Can I ask you if you shoot HP5 at box speed? I sometimes shoot HP5 roll film rated at 200 and get the same results as when using Tri-X. They're really interchangeable in my practice.
    Sounds like we're in the same place. I treat HP5 Plus more or less the same way as Tri-X - expose generously and develop conservatively, aiming for a long-scale, relatively low-contrast negative. The exact degree of "pull" in development usually differs between TX roll film and HP 5 Plus sheet film not only because the films differ to some extent but also because I'm developing TX rolls on reels in a standard tank to get negatives intended for enlargement, while I'm developing HP5 Plus sheets in Expert drums on a Jobo rotary processor to get negatives intended for contact printing. But the basic approach is the same.

    As for metering, you might try some exercises where you meter a variety of scenes as you normally would with your Mamiya 7, and also with your Minolta in incident mode. You may find that to achieve consistent exposures it's convenient to set a different ISO number on the incident meter than on the reflected meter. I usually have my Sekonic set at 100.

    Overall, if you've successfully tamed Tri-X and HP5 Plus roll film for your purposes you should have no trouble getting HP5 Plus sheet film under control as well.

    Good luck and enjoy!

  6. #16
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    Quote Originally Posted by claus View Post
    Hello there!

    r.

    How could I translate this technique to large format 4x5 Tri-x and an incident meter (Minolta Autometer IV F) I shoot 90% of the time outdoors, can I "fake" a shadow using my body to block the sun from the light meter and still rate at EI200 and using the same developing method?

    Thanks in advance!
    I have that meter too. I got a 5 degree spot attachment for it. Works or me.
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  7. #17

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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    Quote Originally Posted by claus View Post
    Hello there!

    I've just started with large format photography and I have some questions regarding my metering technique.

    I normally use a Mamiya 7 with Tri-X rated at 200. When I'm photographing, I expose for the shadows using the in-camera meter (spot-ish) and I develop in Kodak D-76 (1:1) for maybe 20% less than they recommend. Since I print in my own darkroom, I prefer to have a "flat" negative with a lot of details so I can control the contrast using the enlarger.

    How could I translate this technique to large format 4x5 Tri-x and an incident meter (Minolta Autometer IV F) I shoot 90% of the time outdoors, can I "fake" a shadow using my body to block the sun from the light meter and still rate at EI200 and using the same developing method?

    Thanks in advance!
    Just point your incident meter 180degrees away from the sun and you’ll get a pretty good exposure point.
    Since you have the Mamiya 7 and the lightmeter, why not go out and try them against one another?

    If you’re happy with your exposure technique on medium format, you will be on 4x5. No need to get a spot meter.

    A word of caution about HP5 : developed in D76 I find it much less punchy than Tri-x 400. This is made even worse with the bigger latitude of a 4x5 neg. If I had to use HP5 I’d pair it with an orange filter.
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  8. #18

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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    I use the method mentioned by Sandy King - get the meter into general shade and point the dome at your body. That your other hand and hold it a few inches above the dome to cut down on sky illumination and take your reading. I’ve used this method successfully for more than a dozen years.

  9. #19

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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    Ideally...if you can place your incident light meter within the shadow you want to meter (dome facing your lens), and then take a reflected reading off of your highest (important) highlight value, then adjust your exposure/processing for this range, this would be great!

    This of course assumes that the area within your shadow exhibits its own brightness range and you want to accommodate as much of this as possible...whereas if you can otherwise simply identify the darkest area within the shadow that you are wanting to show some detail, then you can just use a spot meter for this, then read the brightest highlight value in the overall scene, and adjust your exposure and development for this. But maybe you don't own a spot meter?

    While I love my Zone VI modified Pentax spotmeter, I've always thought that it would be great if this meter could feature an additional incident light sphere on the rear portion of this meter, along with some means of reading the EV's externally, because I sometimes feel that an incident shadow measurement combined with a reflected highlight measurement would be the cats pajamas!

  10. #20
    Drew Bedo's Avatar
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    Re: Metering for the shadows with an incident light meter

    The meter mentioned in the OP is pretty flexible; does incident and reflected (with spot attachment) as well as flash metering with and without cord. There is even a port to connect one of the focal plane probes.

    Have had mine since the mid 1990s and it works for me.
    Drew Bedo
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