LF hikers, do you remove plastic tree ribbons?

[Heroique]

Always amazing what one does not know! Chesterton sounds like an interesting character…

I discovered G.K. Chesterton since I’m a huge fan of George Bernard Shaw. And Chesterton has some fine things to say about my hero of the modern drama.

Now I’d like to know the source of Chesterton’s remark about the "lost leading the lost," if that’s what CreationBear means.

It would likely be a suitable message to write on tree ribbons to discourage their future use.

[CreationBear]

Ha, normally Guild rules preclude me from explaining jokes (however feeble) but for a fellow big man (like Chesterton himself) I'll make an exception.

“In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, "I don't see the use of this; let us clear it away." To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: "If you don't see the use of it, I certainly won't let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it."

This paradox rests on the most elementary common sense. The gate or fence did not grow there. It was not set up by somnambulists who built it in their sleep. It is highly improbable that it was put there by escaped lunatics who were for some reason loose in the street. Some person had some reason for thinking it would be a good thing for somebody. And until we know what the reason was, we really cannot judge whether the reason was reasonable. It is extremely probable that we have overlooked some whole aspect of the question, if something set up by human beings like ourselves seems to be entirely meaningless and mysterious. There are reformers who get over this difficulty by assuming that all their fathers were fools; but if that be so, we can only say that folly appears to be a hereditary disease. But the truth is that nobody has any business to destroy a social institution until he has really seen it as an historical institution. If he knows how it arose, and what purposes it was supposed to serve, he may really be able to say that they were bad purposes, that they have since become bad purposes, or that they are purposes which are no longer served. But if he simply stares at the thing as a senseless monstrosity that has somehow sprung up in his path, it is he and not the traditionalist who is suffering from an illusion.”

From: The Thing, 1929

[Tin Can]

Fully unaware of your reference

http://americanchestertonsociety.blo...nswer-man.html

grok

[martiansea]

I have a friend who destroys rock cairns on sight.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, destroying rocks cairns could lead to a criminal prosecution if they are present for sake of official trails. They are often used across bare areas or above timberline where trails in terms of established tracks in the soil or meadow grass are not otherwise obvious. And lots of older trails less used nowadays are still marked that way, and many off-trail types depend on them for safe traverses of passes and so forth, so outright destroying every one a person happens to encounter is an extremely bad habit that could end up endangering peoples' lives. With an approaching thunderstorm especially, one needs to move along quickly and efficiently; the more clues to route-finding, the better.

Something like a GPS or Smartphone map is not always dependable, especially over short range. What might seem like an easy transition from Point A to B, directionally, can suddenly encounter a significant cliff or unexpected gorge impeding progress. Carefully arranged stone ducks might indicate some otherwise hidden break in the armor, so to speak. I've done contests between me and my more techie oriented backpacking pals seeing who could get back to the truck at the trailhead first, going off-trail. I'd navigate using my good ole hillbilly intuition and experience, while they used GPS. I always won, at least until they got good enough reading the geological features and lay of the land themselves.

[Alan Klein]

More to the point of a photography forum, would trail cameras tied to trees to photograph passing animals be considered trash by others?

[Heroique]

Would trail cameras tied to trees to photograph passing animals be considered trash by others?

I think that’s a good question (and would like to hear your view). If inside a NP or designated Wilderness, I would say trail cameras don't belong, and I’m sure published rules cover this. I’m more agnostic if inside a Nat’l Forest for a night or two, and only after checking with the local district office. Depending on means of support, the camera could pose a risk to the health or long-term appearance of trees.

Ben Horne is a forum member who places trail cameras in Zion NP as shown on his Youtube videos. The cameras are left for a night, sometimes several. He seems conscientious, so I imagine he’s checked with Zion NP officials. He also films himself picking-up mylar balloons (thank you), and kicking over cairns. It would be interesting to hear his views about ribbons, cairns, and trail cameras in the woods.

[Vaughn]

More to the point of a photography forum, would trail cameras tied to trees to photograph passing animals be considered trash by others?

Wait, those aren't just free cameras?

PS -- it is the responsibility of the camera owner to place it where I can not see it.

PS#2 -- There are trail cairns and then there is rock-stacking. The difference should be obvious. The stacks come down.

[reddesert]

I get a little frustrated by both excessive cairn-building and excessive cairn-destroying. Excessive cairn-building is clearly annoying. However, in some places cairns are properly used to mark trails or routes. For example across rocky slabs or talus where the foot-path is not obvious, or in areas where there has been a lot of "social trail" overuse and the cairns are intended to keep hikers on a single path and protect the side trail areas from continued use and erosion. Not every trail marker is bad; it's not completely untrammeled wilderness if there's a trail, or a person on it.

[Tin Can]

My Trail Camera is ON MY property watching critters on a wildlife trail that passes right by me

If it is removed, that is a crime and I will have several photos transmitted to me

To reassure the Owners of the West, I will never go there again, for a lot of reasons

Wait, those aren't just free cameras?

PS -- it is the responsibility of the camera owner to place it where I can not see it.

PS#2 -- There are trail cairns and then there is rock-stacking. The difference should be obvious. The stacks come down.